Frustrated

Hi All,

During a wedding I was shooting today, the preacher told me that I could not

take pictures during the vows, ring exchange or communion. I'm extremely

frustrated because during the vows, both the bride and groom were crying. He

let me recreate the exchange afterwards but I didn't get the emotion. Is this

normal that preachers do this? I'm sorry for venting, just frustrated.

Thanks

Scott

Yup, they run the show! Many still do not allow pics at all during the ceremony.

The weddings I have done (even though only 3), I went up to the judge, minister, whatever, and asked what the restrictions were as far as where I could be, and whether or not flash could be used. Sorry, these decisions are not yours to make.

No I don't have that problem.

 

Sorry.

 

I attend each wedding rehearsal to establish a rapport with they key players of the

wedding day event.

Get used to it! They are in charge in the church, and you have to follow their rules! I've been told many times no flash or no photos during religious ceremoneies. I follow and respect their rules. If I don't have these great emotional photos, it's ok. I do want to work in that church again. It's their church and I follow their rules. You will come up against this many times over the years. That's the way it goes. The bride and groom chose the church and the priest and the photographer. But on their property, you do what they say. It's common sense and courtesy. Your frustration is understandable but take it with a grin. It's not worth loosing sleep over. Many times I have been told not to take photos or use flash, and I know my pictures will not be their best and I see the guests doing exactly what I was told not to, but those were the RULES that were cast upon me and I will not worry about what happens when I follow them. Get used to it and you won't be too frustrated afterwards.

A lot of church rules are both cultural and regional. Here in the south, we rarely work in a

church that does not have exceedingly strict rules regarding the photography. Even when

we have met with the church managers ahead of time and tried to sweet talk them we're

often met with hostility. I have literally been yelled at on two separate occasions by a

church lady who was convinced I was trying to break the rules (I was not).

 

The strictest churches have been Catholic and Episcopal churches. The most lenient are

the Baptist churches.

 

Our contract includes a statement about our obligation to abide by the policies of the

venue, and that the clients understand that our photography may be limited by these

rules.

 

It's VERY frustrating when we are stuck in a narthex, only allowed to take three pictures

during the ceremony (entrance, kiss, exit), while shutter clicks are (I kid you not) COUNTED

by a church lady who stands beside us the entire time.

 

I honestly believe it has little to nothing to do with your professionalism, nor your ability

to develop a rapport with the church's managers. Some places, for whatever reason, have

an extremely controlling attitude toward every aspect of the couple's ceremony, and they

won't hesitate to infringe upon a contract the couple has already signed with another

vendor.

The wedding was at a country club on the balcony not in a church but I guess it's still his ceremony. At least no one was counting my clicks :)

Some churches are like that. NO photo during the ceremony (flash or not). Some allow flash.

 

Soemthing you have to get used to.

A country club! I've only come across this in churches, and even then I was still allowed to take pics from the balcony, without flash....

 

Again what has already been said, you have to live with their rules. I agree it's frustrating, to not be able to capture those unrecreatable moments. *sigh* Feeling for you!

Have not encountered that kind of restriction, though I've been relegated to the back of the church. These types of rules are particularly annoying since the guests are firing their P&S's throughout the ceremony, flash and all. A photographer, who shall remain nameless but who was recently named in the 10 best in the world, told me he doesn't ask permission, does what he needs to and then asks for forgiveness if needed.

 

I think you need to be respectful, but if the couple has hired you to capture their wedding, then that's your job (even if you have to disguise yourself as a guest-see above).

if you think it's really unfair a " hired guest" with the quietest camera YOU can afford can do the dirty work

 

it's really up to the "happy couple" to attempt reasonable accomodations from the pastor/priest/rabbi/. BUT

as a photographer You want to keep on the good side of the people who run the church.

>>> During a wedding I was shooting today, the preacher told me that I could not take pictures during the vows, ring exchange or communion. <<<

 

Not withstanding that some venues, indeed, have strict rules:

 

This `fact` should have been known by you before the event; disclosed during the reconnoitre: doing so could have indeed uncovered it might not a have been a `fact`, but rather the easiest method of management, by the official, at the time on the day.

 

Misunderstandings / misinterpretations are not uncommon, even when uncovered during the preparation: if for example this official had a bad experience the last week with a photographer . . .

 

The link below is an example of misinterpretation even when gathering information on protocol prior to the event.

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00LSNH

 

Forewarned is not only forearmed, but allows plenty of negotiation room, and TIME: at the altar, on the day: there is no room for discussion or manoeuvrer.

 

WW

I am very lucky, in the area I live in we are generally told don't use flash, but other than that, photographers are usually given total freedom during the ceremony.

As with Becca, I seldom face any restrictions at all - even in Catholic weddings - which I was kind of surprised at. I did have a Methodist minister say "no flash," and he followed up on it with an introduction of the ceremony where he told the guests the same thing. He even said that if he did see a flash go off he would stop the ceremony and ask the person to leave. I didn't see any. In fact I didn't see anyone else try to shoot at all since most people can't remember enough about their new camera to figure out how to keep the flash from firing.

 

On the flip side I have witnessed weddings around here where the official photographer was making a real nuisance of himself, walking around on the platform behind the minister, and even shooting over his shoulder to get a close up of the rings, etc. With that one I couldn't believe the minister didn't stop the show and tell the shooter to get off the stage. I think I would have just screamed, "Get thee behind me Satan!"

 

But I agree, if you want to be allowed into the church next time you have to follow their rules even if they sound capricious.

A different approach not yet mentioned... Long lenses often help and the preacher will never know. Like a 400mm or something. These rules are often caused by past photographers getting too close and blasting off a flash with a loud shutter. But if you are in the back you can get some pretty decent shots with long lenses; without being noticed at all. And remember there are the guests getting away with it and using flash, so you will never be noticed.

 

I've been shooting now since the late 80's and no one has ever said anything to me so I'm confident you can pull this off by having the right gear.

Oh, another trick I often use is a cable release. You have already set up the shot, prefocused, whatever you normally do. Stand next to the camera, NOT behind the camera. Even if the preacher hears the click of a shutter, there is no way he will think it is you! You are too far away and you aren't near the camera!

The most restrictive venue I ever worked insisted that I shoot all ceremony photographs from the balcony, because if the audience heard my shutter, they would break out their point-and-shoot cameras. Normally we work the side aisles as well as the balcony, but that was strictly verboten.

 

Would a preacher stop a service if he saw you shooting silently from the balcony in defiance of his rules? Probably not. But you might not be allowed to go back.

 

The best thing to do is negotiate the rules ahead of time. But this should be done weeks ahead of the wedding, so that the B&G have time to either reason with the preacher or get somebody else to perform the wedding. Many venues have multiple preachers, and some are not as uptight as the others.

 

Later,

 

Paulsky

Hey Scott:

 

This isn't YOUR problem. Its the B&G problem. So why get frustrated?

 

OR, take the shoot anyway (without flash). A photog is expected to pull it off. Either have some fast film on board or ramp up the ISO on your digi.

 

I'd be shooting like crazy.

 

Think out of the box.

I have placed a paragraph in my contract advising each bride and groom of the simple fact that some locations limit photographers. I implore the bride and groom to talk to the person in charge and find out what the rules are for the photographers. I even suggest that they, the bride and groom, have a discussion with the official if they are surprised by the rules. I want awareness: I don't really care What the rules are but I Do care that the bride and groom know the rules well ahead of time.

 

I find it very important to educate the bride and groom and get them involved in the process since it's their wedding. If they have grand expectations based on a lack of knowledge then we have a recipe for resentments and misunderstandings: not good.

 

The point is: it's their wedding and if the bride and groom are not investigating the limitations put on the photographer then they may be surprised. I always like full access but I can assure them we can capture wonderful images no matter what the rules are but let's find out what they are and go from there.

 

I ask the bride and groom to let me know the limitations; that way I understand that they are aware of the limitations ... once that's taken care of then we just follow the rules and all is well.

 

Knowledge ahead of time saves a lot of pain later.

One thought -- and this may not be so popular: was the officiant in any way connected

with the venue? I ask because we honor VENUE policies.

 

If the officiant was an employee of the country club, I would consider him a "manager" of

the venue, and in a position to set up such policies.

 

If, however, the officiant is unaffiliated with the country club, and simply hired by the

couple, I would have politely thanked the officiant for his recommendation and let him

know that, as per my contract with my clients (and his), I would be abiding by VENUE rules

and the COUPLE'S wishes.

 

If our clients agreed with the officiant and asked that we not photograph the ceremony,

we would absolutely honor their wishes. If, however, the couple DID want photographs of

the ceremony, we would honor our clients' request -- NOT the preacher's.

 

My reasoning behind this is that the VENUE'S policies apply to any and every vendor who

walks through their doors. The policies are also likely written into their contract with the

couple. We honor venue policies as a matter of good public relations. We are usually

notified of venue policies WEEKS before the wedding, and we are able to discuss the

policies with our clients and properly set their expectations of the photographs we will be

able to capture.

 

If we were to follow the policies/demands of random vendors at the wedding, we might

well wind up not photographing the reception to stay out of the videographer's way, or not

taking portraits so as not to delay the DJ's introduction of the wedding party.

 

Our contract is with the COUPLE. YOUR contract is with the couple, your clients.

 

It's very important to distinguish between people you don't want to p*ss off (such as a

church where you might work again), and people who are overstepping their bounds (such

as an over-zealous officiant who really has no right to tell you how to do your job).

If they are on their own patch then you have to go with their instructions and advise the bride what the situation is. When I get booked I advise the bride to sort it out with the Priest or registrar so that they know what is happening in advance.

 

However, when the priest or registrar is off their own patch, eg in a hotel, I photograph regardless with flash. Some priests/registrars say you can take photos but without flash. Sorry! But I don't tell you how to do your job so don't tell me how to do mine.

 

Look around the congregation you will see folk taking shots with their cameras and with flash. So why should the professional appointed to take the official photos be treated any differently. My advice is learn to stand up to these people and appear undaunted.

I had an outdoor wedding on an Inn next to a harbor. The bride wanted ceremony pictures and the minister told me that I was not allowed, under any circumstances, to take pictures. He was really rude about it. I put my 70-200 2.8 with a 2x extender on the camera, crawled into a bush, and shot about seventy pictures unbeknownst to anyone. The bride was delighted with the output. I usually cooperated fully with the powers that were but this was a challenge.

>>> One thought -- and this may not be so popular: was the officiant in any way connected with the venue? [. . .] It's very important to distinguish between people you don't want to p*ss off . . . and people who are overstepping their bounds. etc <<<

 

This point is very popular with me: but, I suggest it would NOT be the BEST time to debate it `During a wedding I was shooting today`.

 

If the Preacher was also a `vendor` (i.e. merely another professional engaged at a third party`s venue) that, IMO, does not exclude professional intercourse between vendors PRIOR to the event.

 

However, if push came to shove, knowing my personality I would stand my ground in the fashion you outlined: `Pal, it aint your gig`, (or something quite professional, like that.)

 

WW

Yeah Dick!

I will do anything to get the images the clients want and expect as long as I am not longterm creating a problem for myself.

I also agree with Anne that in venues that are not controlled by the minister/officient that the decision on what to do lies with the client.

At churches that forbid me I require the officient to announce that photographs are not to be taken. IF guest photograph then I go ahead and do so as well!!

If you are not obtrusive I find you can get away with getting something as long as your camera is quiet and does not emit red or white focusing light not a problem.

The church ladies are the ones to stay far from.

Brooke

I'll go back to pre-planning and empowering the bride and groom to find out who is in control and how much latitude the photographer has during Their ceremony.

 

We can all adjust at the last minute to AnyThing and I'm enjoying the discussion regarding vendors and vendors at other sites. Good Stuff.

 

The bride and groom should be working this out well ahead of time so it's not a last minute stress point for either the bride and groom or the family or the photographers or other vendors.

 

In my experience people are much more likely to adjust their stance to an insistent bride and groom prior to an event than bending to the wishes of others (vendors/photographers) at the last minute.

 

Ask bride and groom to find out well ahead and strongly suggest to them that they are Not Powerless. They are (most times) paying a lot of money for the location and for all the vendors so they should be able to have a Strong Voice in how the entire event is recorded for photographs and albums: I suggest that they can be insistent and not take an initial "no" for an answer. MOB can have a strong voice here as well.

 

Plan Ahead and then when things go sideways: "Improvise".

In the first meeting with the B & G I ask them to inquire about site/officiator restrictions, and if there are any we discuss the implications. I've found that while there are often house rules about photography listed on the church website or in paperwork given to the couple, it's not uncommon for the actual officiator to have a different set of rules. Sometimes more strict, sometimes more lax. At one of my local Catholic churches the rules are no flash and no moving around after the ceremony starts; a priest there has told me that his preference would be no photography at all during the ceremony, but he allows it because he knows it's important to the couple. Six blocks away at another Catholic church the priest has told me that as long as I don't bump into him or the couple he doesn't care what I do. He even helps direct the couple at different points in the ceremony so they are facing the camera. I love that guy.