6x9 camera options?

Hi all,

 

I have been reading many posts here re: MF options for landscape photography.

 

I ruled out 6x6 format (don't like square)as well as 6x12 and 6x17 (I cannot

scan such negs on my Nikon 9000). My preference for 6x7 is the Mamiya 7II,

just for weight and portability but I would prefer a format ratio similar to

35mm.

 

Hence, what are my 6x9 options?

 

I have ruled out the Fuji 6x9 cameras as they are fixed lens. In addition, my

experience with my Xpan and 35mm suggests I need a wide-angle option for at

least half my shots.

 

What options do I have in 6x9 for a 3 lens system (equivalent in 35mm to a 19-

21mm lens, a 50mm and perhaps an 80mm)?

 

Weight/portability is a priority. Can I expect a handholdable camera from a

format this big?

 

Is my only option a field camera? The movements would be good but not the dark

cloth scenario in the Australian desert.

 

What about these Paqpro cameras?

http://skgrimes.com/paqpro/index.htm

 

Would they be a better option than say a Horseman or Fotoman 6x12, using 6x9

options?

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

Thanks.

The Horseman VH with a right angle viewer is a viable option. Do a Google....lots of info out there.

There are the older Fuji RFs, which had interchangeable lens. The bad news is lens availability is scarce, read pricey. The applicable model numbers are the G and GL690.

how about an old Mamiya Press Universal 6x9 rangefinder camera?

 

You can probably find one used with a couple lenses for about $400.

 

It's a little heavy for handheld, but doable. Years ago I worked with a wedding photographer

who used one handheld all the time.

 

For me, I use the Fuji rangefinders and have two bodies, one with the 65mm lens and the

other with the 90mm lens. I can get a longer lens if I crop:)

Hmm. 6x9 equivalents to the focal lengths you mentioned are 47 mm, 116 mm, and 186 mm. Normal lens for the format is 100 mm, and normal for 35 mm still is in fact 43 mm.

 

The PaqPro cameras are based on the Graflex XL, accept a wide range of modern lenses. Solid cameras, solid lenses, none of them cheap. Better focusing helicals than the original XL. Smaller, lighter than cameras that are native 6x12.

 

The Horseman VH/VHR/980/985 and Mamiya Press (Super 23 and Universal are the nicest of that line, IMO) that have already been suggested are handholdable. VHR (don't know about the others) and Mamiyas have coupled rangefinders. Nice cameras, all of them.

 

I shoot with a humble Century Graphic, almost always from tripod. The camera's handholdable, was made to be shot handheld, but this isn't mandatory. I use a loupe on the GG to focus and check what's in the frame, have no problems with sunlight. So I think your darkcloth fantasy is just wrongheaded. And yes, I've shot in a desert and on beaches. Lenses used range from 38 mm to 480 mm, including a 47 and a 180. My closest to 116 are 105 and 4.25". Using a lens longer than the camera seems to be able to focus requires a trick or two.

 

If you want a real view camera, there are a fair number of nominal 6x9 ones around. New ones are out of my price range.

Greetings Barry -

 

I use a Linhof Technika V and a Technikardan camera in the 6x9 format. Linhof's nominal

6x9 format is actually 56x84mm, a little larger than the film area given by other

manufacturer's cameras. The Technika is an especially versatile camera. It is very

handholdable, with an excellent detachable grip, and has considerable movements

available as well for tripod use. I use one of two viewfinders, a rotatable Linhof right angle

finder and a modified Mamiya RB67 magnifying finder, along with a Bosscreen, and I have

never needed a darkcloth. My 6 lens set ranges from a 53mm Biogon to a 270mm Nikkor,

but a good contemporary 3 lens set for your purposes would consist of a 55mm Apo-

Grandagon, a 100-105mm lens from any of the major large format lens manufacturers,

and a 180mm lens. I use a 180mm Fujinon A, which is really sharp and compact, but a

faster, larger lens would work as well. The current price for 23 Technikas is astronomical,

but they frequently turn up used on eBay at more affordable prices. I have seen 3 offered

for sale in the past two months (2 of the newer black Tech Vbs, which sold, and an older

"Sierra Tan" model, which didn't). I hope this has been of value - good luck in your quest!

 

Regards,

David

Why not get the Mamiya 7II and crop a bit off the top and bottom? 6x7 is a very big

negative...there is plenty of room to crop. The mamiya 7II is a great wide angle camera, and

probably the easiest to use and handle camera with a negative this big. It has several lens

options, a built in meter, AE operation and easy loading. If you want a camera for wide angles

that has a big negative and is easy to handle, the Mamiya is one of your best options.

Thanks for your (quick) responses so far.

Stuart, you are right in that the Mamiya 7II still seems like a viable option...just for weight alone..though I would make full use of the negative and I would be unlikely to crop if I purchased one.

 

The Fotoman 6x12 also looks promising as it can be used as a 6x9. It is also more affordable than the Horseman 6x12 and still has shift. I'm not sure if I could handhold such a beast in practice though if I wanted to also use the camera for cityscapes. If anybody has actually used this camera handheld, any comments are appreciated.

 

Any other suggestions? Thanks.

I have a Technika 4x5" (with rollholders) handholding and carrying is a challenge but doable. As soon as you're usind the groundglass I'd suggest to add at least a monopod. I have some Linhof focusing bellows, but didn't try it yet. IMHO a tiny 6x9cm Groundglass demands something else than a darkcloth for convenient use. Good outdoor darkclothes are made with a reflective or white outer surface. If you're sewing your own, make it big enough to cover your pith helmet too.

I second Dan's suggestion of a 6x9 Speed/Crown/Century Graphic, or similar. Easily handholdable, take a wide array of excellent lenses, are quite portable, and are wonderfully inexpensive. The movements are there when you want them, you can shoot other formats when the mood or subject strikes you... probably the most versatile cameras in the 6x9 format. Not the best, perhaps, but the most versatile.

Do you know where I can get further info. on the 'Graphic' cameras...maybe a chronology of the different models..there seems to be quite a few. Which one would be best suited for landscape work?

http://graflex.org/

Barry, there were 4 2x3 Graphics. Miniature Speed Graphic (the first), Pacemaker Speed Graphic, Pacemaker Crown Graphic, Century Graphic. The Mini uses wooden lens boards, the Pacemakers and Century all use the same metal board. I'm ignoring the very rare RB 2x3 Speed Graphic that was really a 3x4 Speed with a 2x3 rotating back.

 

The Century is essentially a 2x3 Crown with a body made of molded plastic ("Mahoganite") instead of wood (Mahogany). The two are functionally equivalent.

 

The Speeds (Mini and Pacemaker) have deeper bodies, hence longer minimum flange-to-film distances, than the Crown. So the Crown/Century can focus shorter lenses than the Speeds. The Speeds have longer maximum extension, so can focus somewhat longer lenses than the Crown. FWIW, the longest standard issue lens for these cameras was a 250/5.6 Wollensak telephoto that worked on all of 'em.

 

The shortest original issue lens that a 2x3 Speed will focus is the 80/6.3 Wide Field Ektar. The shortest original issue lens that a 2x3 Crown will focus is the 65/6.8 Wollensak; this lens is functionally equivalent to a 65/6.8 Angulon which will also focus on a Crown.

 

But there are modern lenses with shorter back focus. The shortest that will focus on a 2x3 Speed is probably the 58/5.6 Grandagon; I use mine, also a 65/8 Ilex, essentially a Super Angulon, on my 2x3 Speed. There's a 44/2.8 Elcan in barrel that will make infinity on a 2x3 Speed, but these lenses are very rare, don't cover 2x3, and aren't that good. Mine stays in the drawer. The shortest that will focus on a 2x3 Crown is the 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon. My 47/5.6 SA works very well on my Century.

 

If you're going to use lenses in shutter, a Crown is preferable because lighter than a Speed. I have a 2x3 Crown and a Century, usually use the Century because its lighter. But if you're going to use lenses in barrel, then you want a Speed for its focal plane shutter. On the whole, the 2x3 Graphic for landscapes is probably the Crown. Or Century, which is the same thing.

Fotoman have recently canvassed opinion with a view to bringing out a dedicated 6x9

camera. My hope is that it will be a simple design without shift capability or other frills, in

order to keep the cost and weight down. As with their other panoramic cameras like the 6x12

you refer to, it should be possible to use a wide range of lenses. I cannot recall seeing

confirmation that they are definitely going ahead with this project, let alone a projected issue

date. But it would be excellent if they did!

I second the advice to take a Mamiya 7 strongly into consideration.

Apart from not being 6x9, it meets all your requirements more than the other cameras that have been mentioned, IMHO.

<br>It's combination of size, weight, film format, fast and easy operation is hard to beat.

<br>The Mamiya lenses are truly stellar, and a 43, 80 and 150 lens combo would be a great choice, close enough to what you use in 35mm.

<br>I wouldn't agonize too much about the format ratio. 6x7 in fact is 56x70mm while 6x9 is 56x80(82?)mm or so. That's a noticable difference of course, but not THAT big. 6x7 is far away from being too close to square format (56x56mm). In fact, and in contrary to the nominal format numbers , 6x7 is closer to 6x9 than to 6x6!

<br>It's a wonderful format. Use it, you'll get used to it.

<br>And you'll like it.

I've owned an Apla 12SWA for about five years and it is by far the most verstile camera I have

ever owned for the type of photography I do (personal work, landscape, "snapshots"). I use it

with 6 by 9 Linhof backs and 48mm and 80mm lenses. A very portable setup. I tend to use a

tripod with the 80mm but about 80 or 90% of the 48mm work is handheld. As a

photographer, my head is strangely split between 35mm and large format; this camera

exactly hits that spot. Downside: expensive and not great with longer lenses.

I have personally gone down the speed graphic route, but I also use original Plaubel Makinas - beautiful quality cameras and images, small and light, but OLD, OLD, OLD!

 

My only worry in attempting to offer you advice is that there are many different options, all offering different advantages etc, but very very different in themselves. Can I make the radical suggestion that you try out a 6x9 folder, either 30s-40s or a Russian copy from a bit later to check the format does what you want? - the expenditure of less than 50 UK Pounds would at least let you know that your negs and workflow are as expected, before you commit major expense to a new system.

Just a thought: Superwide angle lenses on large medium format (6x7, 6x9) are rare and very, very expensive (unless you go the Pentax/Mamiya SLR route). I don't know what your budget is, but it seems to me that the Mamiya 7 is your best bet as it is a modern camera with excellent lenses and good ergonomics.

 

If all fails I would get a working 6x9 folder camera, at best one with a four-element lens and a coupled rangefinder.

I'll vote for the Mamiya Universal/Super 23.

 

There are the outstanding 50/6.3 and 75/5.6 Biogon designs, and a quite good 100/2.8

Planar. The 80-equivalent the news isn't so good though, the 150/5.6 is just a Tessar, and

while perfectly nice by Tessar standards, isn't anything earthshaking, ditto the 127/4.7,

100/3.5 and 90/3.5 as well as the 65/6.3 Topogon design. The 250/8 is long enough the

Tessar formula works quite well, but it's not rangefinder-coupled. The RF-coupled 250/5

is a huge beast, again, decent but not great.

 

These cameras also have the bonus of very good film flatness, the film path is straight

through rather than the reverse-curl everyone else uses for compactness.

Barry... in fact you CAN scan both 6x12 and 6x17 on your Nikon 9000. You need to scan two

6x9 frames, and then merge them together using the "Photomerge" command in PS.

Sometimes you may need an additional 6x7 scan for 617 if PS has a problem executing the

merge. Works great... do it all the time.

Such great responses. Thanks to you all for your input.

 

I have now held a Mamiya 7 in my hands and it is not much bigger/equal to a Canon 1ds. Just on weight and being able to handhold, this camera system looks like the one, starting with the 43mm and an 80mm.

 

Paul, I have not completely ruled out the Fotoman. I will visit Mainline Photographics, the distributor here in Sydney, next week to have a look at a 6x12. If I have any further queries, I may also contact you directly (if you don't mind).

 

I'm sure once I have held both in my hands, the final decision will be simple.

 

Thanks again everyone for your contributions.

 

I appreciate it.

Question for Paul Droluk, Sir, Can you tell a little more about merging two pics in PS and is the facility available in elements?

Many thanks

Richard Jones

To Richard Jones:

 

It's called "Photomerge" in PS Elements. I do it to scan 4x5 negs.

 

Works best if you go into your scanner and change the configuration so that it scans the negs the same, ie, something like "Autoexposure Correction Off."

 

Doug Grosjean

I'd go for a Fujica with interchangeable lenses. I have one, and it's pretty much the same as using a mechanical Leica, quite simple (not the size though). The lenses are excellent and it will still be much cheaper than the Mamiya 7 option. And it feels like a very good camera built in the 70's, which I like very much.