What Happened to Film Prices? - Got Ridiculously High!

a couple of things--

 

It's kind of amusing dissing Kodak et al for their lack of business sense when you're buying single rolls @ 3 bucks++ per.

 

bracketing is over--it wasts 2/3 of your film.learn to make an exposure and film costs drop by --

 

adjusted for inflation,crude oil costs less now then in 1980.

 

ironically,50 yrs ago kodak stopped production of it's last 828 camera(Bantam RF).It took the near death of film to finally make it a viable format. :>) (if you don't bracket,ya only need 12 shots.)

 

in 2002(the last year I could find stats for) 90 Billion photos were processed in processing machines.I'm pretty sure that 89.5 Billion were pics of someones cat or dog,so over the next 10-20 years digital will probably save about 3 rain forests,without any damage to the art world.

Bob, I agree that labor related costs dominate. In fact, it was my first point.

 

Alan

Don,

I had to laugh at your comment on animals. I see this often at work in the lab. One lady shot 7 rolls of her 1 dog in different positions and rooms. By the 7th roll I was ready to leave her a note, but I resisted. I bet people who started using digital first without ever shooting a roll of film, and then trying film after, will blow off a roll in the same manor. At least film forces you to be picky with each shot and get it right the first time.

I buy my film in buk and freeze it. I am now good on film through about 2025. that is I also have enough Rodinol and Fixer to last that long also. as for my color I sure hope I can keep getting the E-6 done for the price I am paying. C-41 I have some but my daughter uses most of that and as long as there is a Wal-Mart she should be good.

 

I heard that the price of oil will be dropping soon but did I mention I heard that last summer:(

 

Larry

Doesn't matter if oil drops, prices wont drop. They never do. They find reasons to bring up prices, but rarely bring them down again when things get cheaper.

Well it is good at 1 point. My Cost of Living raise is being calculated during the next 3 months.

 

Larry

Interesting; I buy over one ton of paper a week. EVERY increase in prices has comments about increased production costs due to electricity. EVERY freight bill on paper shipment has added on surcharges for higher fuel costs. Young folks probably dont want to work on a dying film production line; heck maybe Kodak spends more on the health care than the film stock base material. With simple plastic architects triangular rules they listed for 50 cents when gas was 25 cents in 1970. When gas hit 55 cents in 1973 the rulers went to a buck. Today with gasoline at 2.80 to 3.20 where I drive in the USA; the rulers list at 5 to 6 dollars. Price plastic plumbing pipe ; it roughly tracks crude pil prices. Track health care costs of older workers in the usa versus crude oil or film if you want to see "Ridiculously High!"

I think bracketing makes more sense than ever. Film's on the way out, my goal is to make the best film photos I can while it's still possible.

 

For me this means thinking about exposure and, when I can't be sure or don't have the time or when the shot is somehow important, to bracket.

 

1/2 stop either way makes a big difference with slides, sometimes a significant difference with my B&W (often very contrasty light), and no difference with color neg.

 

If I only shot color neg I wouldn't bracket.

Thorsten Veblen would predict from the grave that when film prices reach a sufficiently high point it will become a mark of conspicuous consumption to use it.

>>When Kodak shuts down the Tri-X line, there WILL be HELL to pay! Its probably Kodaks most sold B&W film. And people use this film like diehards.

 

No, Scott, there won't be hell to pay. And you've already provided the reason why...

 

It may well be Kodak's most sold B&W film but in sales terms its pretty small relative to C-41 films.

 

Given that EK and Fuji cross-schedule C-41, E-6, and B&W products on the same coating lines I think that B&W film doesn't have its future in its own hands. If the sales volumes of C-41 drop, then the line is going to get closed. And exit B&W film.

I'd also like to point out that Kelly Flannagan is making some great points.

Al,

Are you sure the color films are done on the same lines as the B&W? I read Kodak built a new dedicated B&W coating facility and as such B&W films are made in their own plant. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. This was a few years back.

Scott,

 

I'm pretty sure it's shared. When PhotoTechniques ran their article they stated that the emulsions were moved to a new state-of-the-art facility. I spoke to a Kodak show rep about that (maybe 3-4 years ago) and he told me that they had the ability to produce many different films there.

 

So, based on the information I have, it is indeed shared with color films.

John,

 

I have to dispute a couple of your points.

 

- I suspect Kodak is outsourcing camera production because they know that, like a lot of makers, they will not be marketing digital cameras long-term. That market is maturing quickly and lots of players are already dropping out. Why invest in a manufacturing competency you simply aren't going to use...

 

This "outsourcing" arrangement, btw, really has very little impact. Nothing in the digicam operation is being physically moved - they are simply selling the existing facilities to a Singapore-based operation named "Flextronics" that will manage the manufacture of the cameras.

 

- Film scanning is a dead end, IMO. At least for smaller formats. There are very new few dedicated film scanners for the 135/120 formats available and one cannot expect a MTBF for these units of greater than several years. I'm already on my second Minolta ScanDual IV...

 

Don't shovel the dirt on film quite yet. If you search on APUG you'll see that there are retailers/distributors who are leveraging the manufacturing infrastructure used to apply films to microelectronic components to produce film (e.g. the Maco line). This infrastructure is likely to be around for some time in the future.

 

Similarly, a large German-based photographic supply retailer is (use of the present tense intentional) making a big push to return the Agfa MCP/MCC papers to production, and possibly, the APX films as well.

 

Naturally, however, we should expect the price of film to continue to monotonically increase - whether such efforts come to fruition or not.

I have no problem paying increased prices for film! Like the one poster said, no one complains about wages going up. You gotta pay to play...Tom in Seattle, Bulk Loader fanatic since 1983. (even got some panatomic-X)

it's foolish and shortsighted to allow high film prices to stop you buying it (if you want to continue seeing it). The prices you have been paying in the past were for high volume manufacturers. With far lower numbers these days, prices will rise.

 

If you decide to stop buying based on higher prices, you will certainly see them rise yet higher, and eventually film will disappear altogether.

SIPHON OFF A FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND BARRELS OF OIL A DAY

FROM IRAQI AND WATCH THE PRICE OF EVERTHING DROP.

Its all about greed my freinds-; greed.

I went on a tour of the Ilford factory last year and was amazed at the size of it and the complexities of the manufacturing process. Particularly impressive was the devotion to quality control. This doesn't come cheap but the quality control of Ilford, Kodak & Fuji is far more consistent than that of any of the other remaining manufacturers of black & white film.

 

On the tour we were able to speak to some of the senior Ilford people and they are very much intending to be in B&W film for the long-term. They certainly wouldn't be planning to price themselves out of that market but manufacturing anything in the UK is not cheap and there are quite rightly stringent health & safety requirements which add to those costs. I think it's fair to say that countries like China don't pay the same attention to this (or pay very high wages) so it's not surprising that the B&W film from their surviving manufacturers is priced much lower.

Interested in the bracketing point made by one or two people. If you are shooting with slide in a controlled environment such as the studio then you don't need to bracket but outdoors a half stop either way can make or break a shot. If you weigh up the other costs of getting the shot such as travel expenses, cost of equipment etc then it really is a false economy not to bracket.

 

In saying that if you are doing something like a fashion shoot under flat outdoor lighting then you can pin down the exposure and shoot several rolls without bracketing but with contrasty lighting then it becomes much more difficult. That why many a fashion pro would shoot 120 colour neg instead of transparency for outdoor work.

 

As for film prices. They will get higher until it disappears. The key question for owners of film equipment is how long will film be available.