xti - night shoot ( @ bar ) what am i doing wrong and how can i mprove

Hello All,

 

I have been using my XTi for a while now. Mainly for landscapes, flowers and

recently photographing people. However I got an opportunity to use it in a bar

and none of the pictures turned out well. I should I have an idea on how to use

manual mode but not an expert though. I am still in the process of learning.

 

Here is a portion of the picture which I took at the bar and its shooting

properties. Can any one tell me what went wrong? I see a ghost around the image.

Is it that the flash is too bright? How can I improve on my poor night

photographic skills?

<p>

Thanks

- Kiran

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Image at <p>

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/491502816_fdbdf0836b.jpg

<p>

 

Shooting properties

File Name: IMG_0583.JPG

Camera Model : Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi

Shooting Date/Time : 5/9/2007 8:58:50 PM

Shooting Mode : Night Scene

Tv( Shutter Speed ) : 1/4

Av( Aperture Value ) : 4.5

Metering Mode : Evaluative Metering

Exposure Compensation :0

ISO Speed :400

Lens :EF-S18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

Focal Length :31.0 mm

Image Size :2816x1880

Image Quality : Fine

Flash : On

Flash Type Built-In Flash

Flash Exposure Compensation :0

Red-eye Reduction :On

Shutter curtain sync: 1st-curtain sync

White Balance Mode :Auto

AF Mode :One-Shot AF

Picture Style :Standard

Sharpness :3

Contrast :0

Saturation: 0

Color tone :0

Color Space: sRGB

Noise Reduction :Off

File Size 1874 KB

Drive Mode :Single-frame shooting

I don't have scene modes on my camera, so I'm not an expert on them, but I believe that the setting uses fill flash and tries to expose for the rest of the scene. Your shutter appears to have been open for a quarter of a second. You used an little built in flash. It seems to me that you should be happy that you got what you got. The shadows from the flash are likely the ghosts. You only posted a small piece of the photo. Flaws in photos taken in dark places with an on board flash are to be expected, and no one should expect more.

Your shutter speed of 1/4 second allowed the movement of the man to be captured as me moved from right to left across the frame, then your flash fired and exposed him in the milisecond or so that the flash was lit up, stopping his motion. In order to eliminate this phenomenon either have your subjects remain motionless and use a tripod or switch to a creative mode (P or M in this case). In P mode, it will set your shutter speed to 1/60s or so and set your aperture to get the appropriate exposure with the flash. In M mode you can set both your shutter (faster to stop motion) and aperture (to control depth of field). The problem with doin this is your background will be drastically underexposed. Remedy this by turning up your ISO or better yet, get a faster lens (f/2 or less)

I agree with Captain Buck on this. I was mistaken, the ghosts are the movement.

Motion blur from flash. Solution- increase shutter speed to 1/30 of a second or so and up the ISO to 800 to still keep from having a pure black background. Skip the preset modes.

 

Roger

Get the Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 lens and enjoy. The lens you are using won't do the job for you, it is just not designed for that.

Miklos

And one more thing, you won't even need the flash then. Remember, using flash in such situation will give you an image which has nothing to do with the real mood of the scene.

Miklos

<p><i>Get the Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 lens and enjoy. The lens you are using won't do the job for you, it is just not designed for that. Miklos</i></p><p><b>NO!</b></p><p>That won't help you, because it will be 19mm too long (based upon your shooting properties). 19mm may not sound like a lot, but the angle of view is quite different, especially when you take into consideration the 1.6x FoV factor of the XTi. The EF 35mm f/2 is a much better option, taking into consideration the focal length. What good is a fast lens, if it's the wrong focal length?!</p>

I would have thought that the 50mm f/1.4, while nice to have, might be a bunch of overkill, and the 50mm f/1.8 would be plenty good enough - could throw in the 85mm f/1.8 for not much more for 2 lenses than just 1. In very dark clubs, the 50mm f/1.8 has been just fine for me on my XTi

M Barbu and Chris,

I agree with you guys. I just meant to make it simple. The point is the aperture not the focal lenght. The aperture is what you need for the lowlight, the focal lenght will just change your perspective (since I use the 5D, 50mm is absolutly ideal focal length for me). So to say, I would actually have both lenses. Nevertheless, I think quality-wise, the 35mm lens can not be compared to the 50mm lens.

And as for f/1.4 vs f/1.8 my consideration is based on the fact that I do not think that $300 is much for the f1.4, I think that is a bargain price for that lens. I just sold mine for 275 and got the f/1.2 version.

Personally if you're looking for a fast lens, I'd get a Sigma 30m 1.4 as it's similar to 50mm on an APS sized sensor camera.

Another recommendation: Get a strobe with bounce flash capabilities and learn how to use it.

The 18 55 is very capable in bars with flash, Roger gave the answer `M` mode around 1/30 f4 balance with flash, the 430EX is good for this (+/- comp on the flash),

if you want to spend money consider the Tamron 17 50 f2.8, it works very well in these places, the 50mm 1.8 is a good tele for portrait shots (the f1.8 focuses quicker in low light than the 1.4 and cheeper to replace if spilt on in the bar). practise.,:o)

<p><i>since I use the 5D, 50mm is absolutly ideal focal length for me</i></p><p>Well, then put yourself in Kiran's shoes. You post that you have a 5D and aren't getting good results with a slow lens, indoors, in low light at 50mm. Someone suggests the 85mm f/1.8. Would that help you? :-) I completely agree that the 50mm f/1.4 is a great quality lens, and at a great price. BUT, it's not an appropriate suggestion for this application. Far too many people recommend the 50mm lenses to cropped sensor users. They are GREAT lenses -- for full frame bodies, or if you want a moderate telephoto lens. Moderate telephoto lenses have limited applications indoors, however.</p>

I agree that the Kit Lens can be used in bars and similar with a Flash and adequate knowledge.

 

The in-camera flash is a little limiting, (though still useable) so if you want to continue this type of endeavour, get a flash unit and bone up on some theory as outlined above: you might see the technique referred to as `dragging the shutter with flash fill` or words to that effect.

 

Also, I agree, that a more challenging field is available light shooting, (i.e. NO flash), for which you will need a faster lens (it will let more light in).

 

Almost always, in a bar, any zoom will be too slow for hand held work: a prime lens, faster than F2, is where the action is.

 

As you note from the posts above, you then have to consider the FL (focal length) of the lens you choose: and on your camera the field of view is multiplied by about 1.6. (of the stated focal length).

 

Hence the discussion above noting that a 50mm lens would be `too long` to take the shot to which you first referred us.

 

I do a lot of HH available light shooting, inside bars and the like: the 50mmF1.4 is a really good lens, but for a one fast prime option, on your body, you really need to be considering the 20mm to 30mm range, even 35mm is a bit too long in the sometimes cramped confines of a bar.

 

The price range is quite wide. Just another thought re this comment:

 

> Personally if you're looking for a fast lens, I'd get a Sigma 30m 1.4

 

The Canon 28mm F1.8 is a contender also, (as too is the 24mmF1.4L, but it is more expensive).

 

WW

I didn't see this mentioned above, so I apologize if it's already been mentioned and I missed it:

 

On the "Tools 2" menu on the camera, scroll down to the third line ("Custom Functions") and then go to "C. Fn. 3" ~ this allows you to select the shutter behavior with flasn in aperture priority auto mode. The default as set at the factory allows the shutter to run anywhere from 30 seconds to 1/200, using the flash only for fill. You can change this to make it default to 1/200 when the flash is in use, which is probably a better setting for general purpose flash operation. This will prevent the unwanted long exposures when firing the flash in very low ambient light, without making you go to manual mode.

`make it default to 1/200 when the flash is in use, `

 

Problem with this in my view richard is that then the flash becomes a main source of light, the flash fall off would be shorter and the background becomes dark taking away the bar atmosphere, but if you wanted to isolate a subject it could help. also quite often patrons object to too much flash best to stay safe.

Scrolling back through the various options, I discovered that you managed to pick just about the only operating mode that would NOT work for you in that situation:

 

The shutter defaults to 1/60 second with flash in P, Full Auto (green square), portrait and closeup modes. Only in Night, Landscape and (per factory defaults) Av mode will you get the slow synch speed that you experienced. So, just stay off of the "Night" mode and you'll get better results with the flash.

Thank you very much for all the responses guys. I did learn a lot from this thread.

Probably already mentioned but if you speed up your shutter to 1/60 or 1/80 you should still be able to get useable images without motion blur.

 

another piece of adice i'll give is to buy a flash. the on-camera flash is really not that great. I got an old 80's Vivitar Flash off of Ebay for $40 and it is great. doesn't have TTL focusing and metering but that's not a huge deal when you are just learning how to use it. take a few practice shots in the setting you are in and you should be good.

you will learn more than you would if the camera did it all for your anyway.