Wisner ULF Cameras

i have ordered and recieved two custom ulta large format cameras from ron wisner over the past three years and can

say i didn't get either camera in my hands on time. ron understood my sadness and frustration and rewarded me for my

waiting with free holders, lens boards, and deep discounts which i was willing to agree to. ron gave me his word to make

good on his offers and he did. i love making photographs with these cameras and was worth the wait.

I bought a used wisner 8x10 and I like it alot , I would recommend that Ron Wisner use better screws for the lense board slide holders, I replaced mine with tiny but LONG stainless screws from an airplane hobby shop, I was just too afraid of dumping a 155 Grandagon on the ground because the screws failed. I make my own lense boards and I found that by cutting down a Calumet recessed board and shiming the edge thickness I could mount the 155 Grandagon and still use the focus rails. I like the camera alot especially the large knobs on the adjustments. I do wish there was a quick release so when I am doing my tailgate photography I can mount the camera on the reipod easily, Ialso wish he made a carried to go in a car that allowed the camera to sit open until ready for mounting on a tripod.

Whether buying new or used cameras it seems to be that one very important consideration is ease and availability of repair. I recently send my 5x7 [insert camera name here, but not Wisner] back to the manufacurer for modification and repair (I had dropped it), and the camera was returned within a week, faster than promised. Likewise, why do people rave about a certain shutter repair man?

 

Would you buy a car from a dealer who was known for taking MONTHS or YEARS to repair? No, I don't think so. Obviously, buying a camera is very personal matter, however I really can't see buying a camera (or anything) for which the manufacurer isn't reliable, unless of course, you don't really need your camera.

I believe some of the respondents have missed a critical point. To pay for any consumer item up front and then get the run around for extended periods beyond a reasonable production time is both unethical and just plain ignorant. And I am making this statement for even the most customized special order item. Why should a large format camera buyer be required to turn into a lollipop when they would have an outer body experience with any other purchase of similar value as a previous respondant stated?

 

If for some reason I was affected by a condition of ultra large ego and felt that I could get away with attempting Wisner's (hybrid) business strategy or offered similar "it takes time" rational for customer shortcomings clearly found between the words "expectations" and "disappointment", I would wake up from the self induced coma in the unemployment office just in time to get the paperwork for $240 a week started. There is no way in hell I would let that happen as I worked to damn hard for my reputation to let even a hint of less than honest creep near me.

 

Since it is rather easy to lob all kinds of negative comments to any and all rather indescriminantly, I wanted to serve up something on a positive note. Here is what I would do if I was running this company. Immediately, I would cease taking new camera orders until further notice. Secondly, I would begin to publish a weekly listing on the web site of the job que and the names of the clients work orders that are to be completed in priority. Concurrently, when a job is finished and shipped, it will be marked as having been completed on the next weekly work report. No more need to make excuses, promises or engender ill will. It is simply there for everyone involved to follow for themselves.

 

Pull up on the handle Ron before this aircraft hits something solid. I desperately want to see you both succeed and prosper, but what I am hearing is a continuation of a common mode called denial.

One other policy I would implement if I ran the company. No requirement for full payment or for that matter even a deposit to order a camera, camera accessory or film holders - PERIOD.

 

Dick Phillips clearly gets it. No money down and he delivers a quality product before it is promised. As a result, payment is gladly made upon shipment.

I too have been waiting 5 months for my 12x20 from Mr. Wisner. But in my mind the reality is this. If you like and want to use Wisner cameras then you might want to accept the waiting period. If you are not willing to do that you need to find one used or buy another brand. The way I see it is that in this kind of business there is most likely the syndrome of borrowing from Peter to pay Paul just to keep things up and running. And the other problem is it is really a personal customer service business in the long run. Customers keep the business going but provide some/much of the problems too.The company is not perfect, but either are the clients. It's not like selling hamburgers. But I dont know for sure as I am not in the camera building business.I am in retail though so I have an idea. There are very few people in the world who do this (building LF cameras) and only they really know what the reality is. It is real easy to have an opinion of how things should be done relaxing in your armchair.Until you actually do it though you don't really know. I do know that Canham charges 20% to 25% more for his 12x20 and Ebony over three times the cost at $16,000.00.Both with waiting periods also. I happen to like the Wisner so I accept the waiting period...for awhile. It seems to me that if possible, popular accessories like lensboards should without fail, be made/stocked, and sent out quickly for obvious reasons. But in the long and short of it...it is up to Mr. Wisner to run the company exactly as he sees fit. After all it is his company and his monetary risk. If Wisner co. continues to succeed then credit goes to Mr. Wisner for it. If business is not that good then he has to take full responsibility for that and see that things are more fully perfected. I think in our heart of hearts we all want to see him succeed but also want the customer communication to be rectified so we all are in the know and everyone profits. We all see what is happening in the airline industry right now. It would not take much to have that happen to our LF industry also.Then where will we buy our cameras? We need to support one another, both company and customer alike. If we dont continue to do that you know what the result will be....

Just to relate another side of the coin, I've called the Wisner company twice to inquire about payment plans and to place an order. Upon both calls, Ron Wisner himself answered the phone and handled my business. While he might need a few extra hands around the shop to expedite things, I certainly can't complain about his personal interactions with customers (me!). The experience of talking with him directly served to remind me of the tradition that Wisner sems to represent. His company isn't some souless corporate monster whose equiptment is made in sweatshops somewhere. Wisner represents--in my view--a tradition with which most of us have grown unfamiliar. We're used to B & H deliveries being placed on the internet and arriving at our doorsteps the next day. But--as Ron said--he deals with products on a one to one basis, often having to take several unpredictable variables into account at once. Patience is a scarcity now, which is one reason LF is so endangered. So like Emile said, we should support our own, because in alot of ways, their idiosynchrasies mirror what we love most about the hobby.

I dont think anybody here is overly concerned about the waiting period. It seems to me it is the fact that there seems to be an element of dishonesty when you call the Wisner company and are told that the film holder/camera etc, is on its way and it is not, or that it will be delivered in a week and 6 months go by and it does not show. Personally I dont have or use Wisners cameras, but when the time comes to buy a new 12x20 I will not consider Wisner. I have heard just too many stories which basically deal around the lack of correct information as to the delivery date.

 

I dont mind if someone tells me "your camera will be there 1 year from now" but if I am told it will take 3 months and 2 years later I am still waiting then I can see how I will be frustrated and upset.

Imagine if someone sells his current camera in the expectation that the new camera will be there 3 months from now and then it never shows up.

 

BTW getting freebies does not cut it with me, I would much rather have the vendor keep to the original deal than to have him try to appease me by giving me a "deal".

 

Bottom line I think Mr. Wisner should just be straigh forward and say he has not done the order than to keep people on pins and needles. All it does is give him bad reputation which we all know is much harder to correct. I am an example, I am looking to get a new 12x20 next year, but with all these complaints I am very weary of ordering from him.

I've never had any dealings with Wisner himself, but to me the idea of taking money and then not delivering a person his/her camera on time is really bad. I appreciate Robert's comments above, but I don't think somebody should have to deal with "idosynchracies" when possibly thousands of dollars are in question.<br><br>I respect the problems that Wisner has, and I don't want to imagine what the grim realities of the camera-building craft are! But I really like the suggestion above about putting peoples' orders on a web site, so they KNOW when their camera or their gear will be finished. This could surely help Wisner himself to keep track of things better also! Finally, creating such a database would help keep IT people employed (hehehe...) Creating this system would be relatively simple to do (but Wisner would have to hire somebody, as Microsoft Frontpage Express 2.0, which is what he used to create his web site, isn't quite up to the task!)

Hi Ron,

 

My 8X10 complete package was real late...I don't recall getting any free stuff. But that was awhile ago..did I get any free stuff? Anyway, no big deal, what I really would like to know is if you would [under the lifetime guarantee] replace the shaky front standard with the more rigid standard of the Traditional model...that's what I ordered, the Traditional. There's also that hardware in the back with the bad finish job I'd still like to get that replaced.

 

The geared standard design works ok on the back, but the front is not so good. If you would send me the parts I can make the change and send the old parts back to the shop.

 

Thanks

 

Jason Kefover