Tale of two (or possibly more) TLR's :)

Hi Folks,

 

I have been looking into a purchase of a very budget minded TLR, and have

pretty much narrowed it down to two: Yashica - either a D with a Yashinon lens

or any of the 'Mats, or a Minolta Autocord. I am not concerned with

collectible desireability - this camera will be bought to be used, not to sit

on a shelf, so I am looking at the best for the least :)

My question is really about the focusing screens - between those two brands,

which one is most likely to be brighter? I understand that for the time (and

money) the 'Mats have a reputation of being rather good in that department,

but I can't find any reliable info on the Autocords, or more specifically, one

vis a vis the other. I have found a few sites which list the various models -

but while the ones I found on the Yashica cameras gave some advice as to which

would be the best buy, the ones about the Minoltas seem more geared towards a

collector than a user (listing various features and serial numbers but not

getting into any user advice or buyer's guide type insight). Also, the

presence or absence of a built in meter of any kind is not an issue as I will

probably not use it anyway:)

 

Also, any other insight from people who have had first hand contact with these

cameras would be great as well - any pointers, likes and dislikes or even

blatant personal preferences :)

 

Anyhow - thanks in advance for any and all tid-bits of information you so

generously contribute, I really appreciate it,

 

Peter.

I'm curious why Rolleicords fell off your list? The best $50 USD I ever spent. Only sold it later because I found an ugly Rolleiflex for $150 and I had more cash then too. I know the Yashicamats and Autocords have their following but after holding both in camera stores I felt the Rolleicord seemed much more study and well-built, and for the price would rather have the Rolleicord. The Xenar lens gave me AMAZING results. You can find Rolleicords for anywhere from $30-100 USD in decent working shape if you look around.

One of the problems with buying old gear is you never know if the original screen is still in it.

The screen might have been up or down graded during the camera's lifetime. A discussion

which factory installed screen was better is not very meaningful after 40 odd years. The only

way to go is to look down the finder to find out if the screen is good enough for your taste.

<P>

I hope this sounds not too grumpy. :-) <p>

Ferdi.

Ferdi,

 

Not grumpy at all - an excellent point. I am just hoping that with a consumer quality camera like the 'mats and autocords, not many owners would go to the lengths of replacing screens, but I may be entirely out of touch with how common this was.

 

Rich,

 

The reason I leave 'cords off the list is simple - the Rollei quagmire of nomenclature, the HUGE price discrepancy between seemingly identical models simply has me lost. I don't want to buy a cat in a bag, and for the money the Yashica or Minolta will probably be a fair bit newer and have more life left in them (compared to the 'cord I could afford - I have about $50 to spend). I am just a little scared of the Rolleicords simply because I feel a bit overwhelmed by trying to figure out what I am looking at :)

 

thank you both for your input.

Peter, one thing to always remember about Rolleis, whether 'flexes, 'cords, Xenars, Tessars and so forth ad ininitum is that they were made before the modern concept of "built-in obsolescence" became fashionable. I have heard it said about Rolleis -- and I believe it 100 percent -- that no matter how old or abused or broken, a Rollei will ALWAYS be worth having cleaned up and repaired. I can think of no other optical gear for which that claim has ever been made.

 

I think that the real and primary difference in the 'flexes and the 'cords was the money spent on the complicated (but well-built) winding mechanism.

 

One more thing to consider from my own experiences. I have used (or at least fondled) a lot of different TLRs; they are by far my favorite photographic system. You stated that your future TLR will not be a shelf-sitter, but is to be used. What I have found is that those where the aperature and speeds are set by dials are superior to those regulated by levers. There is nothing inherently wrong with lever designs, they just have more of an opening for dirst, dust and other crud to find its way into the mechanism. This is of no concern for a studio camera, but in a knockabout camera carried around in a backpack it can make a difference between one always functioning and one that might crap-out on you.

"...for the money the Yashica or Minolta will probably...and have more life left in them..."

 

Not to pooh-pooh either of those but see what Andre said and know that the Rolleicord, unless dropped from a tall building, theoretically can never truly die. There are dedicated Rollei repair people who can tool them and repair them until the cows come home (not that there are not people to repair Yashicamatas and Minolta Autcords as well, I just imagine there's not quite the dedicated or intense following or repair people).

 

If I had $50 to spend and no more I'd get a Lubitel or older Seagull and just play around. But that would not be my first choice. Instead I'd save up a little more, get a beater 'cord and send it to Paul Ebel for $100 or so CLA and be set for life.

 

Great Rolleicord info here:

 

http://www.rolleiclub.com/cameras/tlr/info/rolleicord.shtml

 

Might seem like a lot but trust me a little time understanding the different ones available is time well spent.

 

See these recent completed eBay auctions for an idea of what you can find with patience (and this is avoiding the Triotar lens ones, which are not bad either):

 

200077969181 - $36.00 USD

250084631862 - $59.00 USD

 

Or go to KEH.com and get one with a 10-day return and 60-day warranty for $119-179 USD.

 

Bottomline is you'll more than likely require a CLA anyway (you plan to use it and want good results right?) and if I could get a Rolleicord for less than $75 vs. any other TLR it's a no brainer for me.

OK - I am starting to "get it" - I simply thought that anything that said Rollei* on it would be a) out of my price range and b) if it was even close, it would be pretty much a paper weight. But I am starting to see the error of my ways:)

 

As far as TLR's in general, I started my journey into photography with a Lubitel that I got when I was 11 years old (my dad got it for me so I would keep my hands off his Zenit - believe it or not, in Poland in the 80's, a Zenit was pretty expensive for the average Ploish family!). When we moved to Canada, the camera stayed behind - but I brought the one roll of film I managed to expose before we left. I had it developed, and I can tell you that now, two decades and some later, the time I spend in the darkroom re-visiting those old negs is truly priceless! But I digress.

A friend of mine got me a Lubitel for my birthday a few years ago since he knew how much it would mean to me, and I have it, and even use it (some of the photos in my portfolio here on p.net were taken with it). But it is what it is... its value to me is much more emotional than practical.

But I love TLR's - I love them for the way they handle, the way they feel, the way you can make them stand on their own on make-shift cigarette pack "tri-pods", park benches, etc. The way you look into them rather than through them, the way people pay no attention to a camera tha is not up to your eye... Well - you get the point. And the lovely 6x6 neg is great too!

But what I need is a _real_, quality TLR, but I am on a strict budget for now and for the foreseeable future.

 

Thanks for your suggestions, though - it seems I have some Rollei reading to do!

uhm... I don't know what Ploish people are, but I am sure they are very nice. However, I am not one of them... being Polish. Perhaps Ploish people are better typists, though:)

I had a Yashicamat 124-G in High School and the beginning of college. The Yashinon is an excellent lens in every way but mehcanically the Yashica TLRs are not stellar. I have been told that the earlier Yashicamat 124 (not the 124-G) has more metal in it and is more sturdy. When the Yashicamat 124-G broke for the second time I got a late model meterless Autocord. It's much better made and the lens is decent too. To get the most enjoyment from either camera you will want to have it cleaned and adjusted. This way of you set the shutter speed at 1/250 you can be confident it is at least in that range. If I were to buy another TLR now I would look for a Rolleicord IV,V, or Vb with the Xenar lens. I now have three Bronica SLR cameras: ETR, SQ-A and GS-1. Prices for these cameras are quite low now and they are much more flexible than TLRs. If you get an Autocord make sure the focusing lever hasn't fallen off.

<p>Come see my <a href="http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/rolleitlr.htm">Rolleiflex TLR Guide</a>

I have a $55 Rolleicord III (Xenar lens) which came fully functional but with a large dent in the left side. I found that there is a big hollow space under the panel that was dented. A a screwdriver, hammer, an anvil, and some contact cement was all it took to remove the dent and restore the side. The 'Cord is simple and very tough.

 

-Paul

Thanks for your input guys, I am basically hunting for the best deal I can find, although I can't say that with the money currently at my disposal I am still set on any one (Yashica, Minolta or Rolleicord) for sure. The Rolleicords seem to be on average more than I can spend (and I am sure worth every penny - I simply can't afford it right now). I am in no hurry, and my experience has been that patience will eventually land you a deal that's better than average.

 

As to other types of MF gear, this is not about a TLR being the most frugal way to go, I am specifically looking for a TLR because I want one. I understand their shortcomings and by no means do I intend it to be my one and only MF camera. I have shot quite a bit with various MF gear, from SLR to RF, and I think they all have their strong points, obviously the SLR being the most flexible and versitile - so this is not a case of looking to get my feet wet in the MF world, but rather a case of really, really liking TLR's :)

 

Now lets see that Rollei guide - thanks for the link.

Peter, TLRs are special. There are those that think they are at best a good entry level way to learn medium format, and there are people like myself who believe that the twin lens system was the very acme of photographic design and everything since has been a downhill descent into mediocrity.

 

One of the benefits of the global rush to embrace plastic and silicone cameras is that it has freed up tens of thousands of beautiful TLRs from the dark closets and attics where they rested almost forgotten. Grandad dies, his kids don't want the obsolete old things and the grandkids could not care a bit about anything older than last week. These wonderful old tools used to cost a working man about a week's pay. You can now find them in excellent condition for what many of us make in a morning -- or even a half-hour's salary.

 

You said you are specifically looking for a TLR just because you want one. And that is the best reason of all. It is good to be a photographer and not just another "image capturer".

Andre! Honour and a pleasure to hear from you! You may not remember, but you shared some wonderfully ecnouraging words about a couple of my images - and I am not only grateful for the kind words, but more so because it prompted me to check out your excellent portfolio!

Unfortunately... I am pretty broke right now - so I am trully bottom feeding. But, I seriously doubt I will only have ONE tlr (well, one more - I do have the venerable Lubitel:)). I think that as my situation starts to stabilize, many of these wonderful, soulful image crafting instruments will make their way into my hands!

For now, I lay in wait... :)

 

Thanks again for chiming in!