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Erwin: More on M8


jtdnyc

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"Why didn't they start putting the damn IR filter between the sensor and the shutter? Like, add another layer above the moire filter."

 

Yeah? Which moire filter would that be then?

 

Perhaps a little research would be in order before making rash statements...

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It's about time an interchangeable lens digital camera came out that wasn't a friggin slr. I said this about the Epson RD-1 too. I hope that we see this "trend" continue and have more choice in the non-slr digital camera market.

 

BTW, the shots that I have seen from the M8, printed that is, are pretty good, better than I thought they would be given the inferiority of digital compared to film. ;-P

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Despite all the name calling and brou-ha-ha over this imaging device as being less than a whole of its parts I believe Leica has produced something which can approach the M system of photography in a digital product. Some of the images posted from the M8, even in jpeg for crying out loud, border on the fantastic. But I believe many have missed one of the most important aspects of this camera which is its b&w ability. For me this is the biggie. And when you shoot b&w it requires none of the filters. Even though I occasionally shoot some color slides with my M, IMO b&w IS Leica rangefinder photography. And yes, I still want one, but I can wait awhile to see what develops (pun intended) from both the technical and obsolescence or lack thereof side.
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even in jpeg for crying out loud, border on the fantastic. But I believe many have missed one of the most important aspects of this camera which is its b&w ability. For me this is the biggie. And when you shoot b&w it requires none of the filters

 

You seem very happy with your new cam. You want to cry out loud.

 

It does not need filters when it shoots b&w. So you are telling us that it needs filters to work correctley when using color? Is this new cutting edge digital technology? Curious?

 

Can you post some pixs so i too can experience the 'border on the fantastic'.

 

Thanks.

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"Hi Mr. Bob Atkins , your views are well known here this much is sure and I for one accept this. However a camera such as the M8 plus a a 28mm lens for $ 1000.00 now I think you lost it. Perhaps you can give us an example the 5D I used for a while does not even come close to film in fact none are performing with wide lenses. Sorry if I offend some here but this I wanted of my chest. Your call Mr. Atkins!

"

 

I don't think he'll be offended because no matter how many times I read this I don't understand what the heck you're trying to say. If we want to compare the M8 to the Canon 5D, the 5D has a larger, higher resolution sensor than the M8. But even if we say they are in some way comparable, then sell the M8 for $2800 then, not $5000.

 

Interestingly when I decided I couldn't afford the M8, the camera I DID buy was the Canon 5D, even though I had a considerable investment in lenses. It's a lot bigger than my M2 and more complex, but its a great camera.

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One can use great Leica M lenses on M8.

That is the only advantage that M8 has comparing to other digital cameras.

 

I hope M8 is a successful one and Leica keeps making great lenses and provide good service for my MP for next decade.

 

I am happy with Canon Rebel XT for digital side.

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Furthermore, if it were leica's considered engineering decision to offer IR-block filters

right from the beginning during the development process, one would wonder why those

filters weren't supplied to their early reviewers. In other words, filters were not in the plan,

but an afterthought when leica discovered some people were actually fussy about their

photographs.

<P>

What's really striking, is how easy it is for just regular shooters taking ordinary snapshots

in routine shooting situations to come across the problem. Certainly not unique shooting

situations.<P>

 

Apparently leica and/or their beta testers weren't very fussy, and that leica assumed their

customers would not be fussy as well. Seems some are still not, as the last minute

"solution" with filters is being greeted with open arms.<P>

 

<I>However a camera such as the M8 plus a a 28mm lens for $ 1000.00 now I think you

lost it. Perhaps you can give us an example the 5D</i><P>

 

Well, the 5D is a <I>far</I> more advanced camera in every respect.

www.citysnaps.net
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<I>Ever notice that half the people on the Leica forum are Canonites? Ever notice that half

the people on ALL forums are Canonites? I wonder if they ever take pictures?</I><P>

 

Well, I do have a canon (though don't identify with the brand - ie I'm not a <I>canon

photographer</I>), but clicking on my name will reveal I do take pictures.<P>

 

How about you, do you take pix?

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All brands have their new-model bugs, that's a different issue entirely. But it's lucky for Leica they have such an incredibly dedicated customer base because if, at this point in digital technology, Canon or Nikon put out a camera without an effective IR filter and then told everyone they need to buy over-$100 filters for each of their lenses, there would be a mass defection to the other brand and probably a class-action suit. Then again if Canon or Nikon at this point in digital technology put out a 10mp cropped-sensor camera, with or without an IR filter, for $5000 they wouldn't really need to worry about anyone buying it.
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"Ever notice that half the people on the Leica forum are Canonites? Ever notice that half the people on ALL forums are Canonites?"

 

I haven't noticed that ... but my first serious camera was a Canon Model 7. Later, I bought a Canon F-1, and only much later a Leica, though I used Leica lenses on my Model 7. I wonder if there is some subliminal reason people who use Canons gravitate to Leicas and vice versa. I'm gonna have to check see if their focusing rings turn in the same direction or some such.

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"Well, the 5D is a far more advanced camera in every respect."

 

So what, it aint no rangefinder. Thats like saying its more advanced than my Cambo 4x5, of course it is true, but so what.

 

"Just how much do you have to shoot to get an RD-1s or an M8 to pay for itself? On that basis, given your shooting rate, how long would it take for you to get the machine to pay for itself?"

 

This is one of the great things about not being a professional who really should figure this out. I don't think of my shots in terms of cost/benefit/when the equipment will be obsolete ect. I buy equipment that I can afford, what fits my shooting style and what I like, fairly simple.

 

"You neglect to include the price of the latest ASPH lens and the absolutely necessary Luigi half case without which no one in their right mind would be caught dead shooting with a Leica."

 

Spoken like a true non-user.

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>> Well, the 5D is a far more advanced camera in every respect.<BR><P>

 

>>> So what, it aint no rangefinder. Thats like saying its more advanced than my Cambo

4x5, of course it is true, but so what.<P>

 

Ha, great nonsequitur (and typical knee-jerk response), RJ. Try again reading the complete

context of the original statement and my response.<P>

 

Seems my statement as to why photographers would pay more than Bob's value (for a M8

and

lens) for a 5D

was lost on you. Has nothing to do with whether the cam is an RF or not, but why some

will pay more for the more advanced technology employed, as is found in the 5D.

www.citysnaps.net
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<I>Spoken like a true non-user.</I><P>

 

Well, I suspect Nels, eschewing the luigi case and the best this and that, coupled with the fact

he's

actually a

<I>photographer</I>, will gladly accept your characterization - a badge of honor,

of sorts.

www.citysnaps.net
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It's been pointed out a couple of times that the need for corrective filters is nothing new in photography. Why is this message not sinking in? My Dad's model II required a yellow filter to avoid overexposing the sky with black and white film. So does my IIIc, my MP, and everything in between. I use a skylight filter to remove excess blue from shots taken in the shade; 81A, B abd C warming filters; a Tiffen 812; an FL-D for correcting fluorescent light; and a blue filter for correcting the excess yellow of late afternoon sunlight.

 

New technology calls for changing habits. You guys are resisting an IR filter like I resisted Photoshop. OY, all those buttons to learn about and click on.

 

Leica could have ordered the sensor (I guess) with a more conventional IR filter, but I understand the image quality would have suffered. I can imagine the kvetching then: "LEICA MISSED AN OPPORTUNITY TO ACHIEVE THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE DIGITAL IMAGE QUALITY! ALL THEY HADDA DO WAS TELL US TO USE AN IR FILTER ON THE LENS FOR CERTAIN SHOTS! WHAT A LOUSY COMPANY! (etc.)

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I find it interesting that all the folks who own the M8 are out there using them and

enjoying the experience and the images the camera produces. It's also interesting that

Leica cannot produce enough M8's to keep up with the demand for the camera and there

is a backlog for them going into February. Not bad for such a maligned piece of

equipment. All the wannabe whiners who can't afford it and the complainers, who will

never have one, seem to be the only one's unhappy about its existence. Perhaps the

moderator of this forum could sent all you naysayers to a string where you could bitch

among yourselves and the rest of us could enjoy the excellent photo's and great

experiences of those who really own this camera.

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<I>I find it interesting that all the folks...</i><P>

 

I find it interesting that all the folks who are the most defensive on this subject don't have

any photos when you click on their name. Plenty of talk, though...<P>

www.citysnaps.net
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"Yeah? Which moire filter would that be then?"

 

They didn't include a moire filter? What are they trying to do, commit suicide?

 

In any event, despite the snide fanboy comments from the peanut gallery, my original point

still stands. Why not insert a filter on top of the sensor like every sane digital camera

company does? Nice attempts at evasion though.

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