bambam_rubble Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 But, as a Canon advertiser, why would Bob say anything to harm that relationship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew robertson Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Other companies just put the IR filter on top the sensor, behind the shutter. And Mr. Swineheart, I bet the whole reason it's messed up in the first place is because there were a hodgepodge of companies in on this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew robertson Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 "Frankly, I don't mind the idea of using an IR/UVA filter on all three of my Leica lenses. I have UVA filters on them already." Using a filter all the time, especially in difficult low light situations, is a recipe for disaster. I can't believe that this is their solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyaitken Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 "Why didn't they start putting the damn IR filter between the sensor and the shutter? Like, add another layer above the moire filter." Yeah? Which moire filter would that be then? Perhaps a little research would be in order before making rash statements... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 It's about time an interchangeable lens digital camera came out that wasn't a friggin slr. I said this about the Epson RD-1 too. I hope that we see this "trend" continue and have more choice in the non-slr digital camera market. BTW, the shots that I have seen from the M8, printed that is, are pretty good, better than I thought they would be given the inferiority of digital compared to film. ;-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_brewton Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Despite all the name calling and brou-ha-ha over this imaging device as being less than a whole of its parts I believe Leica has produced something which can approach the M system of photography in a digital product. Some of the images posted from the M8, even in jpeg for crying out loud, border on the fantastic. But I believe many have missed one of the most important aspects of this camera which is its b&w ability. For me this is the biggie. And when you shoot b&w it requires none of the filters. Even though I occasionally shoot some color slides with my M, IMO b&w IS Leica rangefinder photography. And yes, I still want one, but I can wait awhile to see what develops (pun intended) from both the technical and obsolescence or lack thereof side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_gorman Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 even in jpeg for crying out loud, border on the fantastic. But I believe many have missed one of the most important aspects of this camera which is its b&w ability. For me this is the biggie. And when you shoot b&w it requires none of the filters You seem very happy with your new cam. You want to cry out loud. It does not need filters when it shoots b&w. So you are telling us that it needs filters to work correctley when using color? Is this new cutting edge digital technology? Curious? Can you post some pixs so i too can experience the 'border on the fantastic'. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon_dragon Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 "Hi Mr. Bob Atkins , your views are well known here this much is sure and I for one accept this. However a camera such as the M8 plus a a 28mm lens for $ 1000.00 now I think you lost it. Perhaps you can give us an example the 5D I used for a while does not even come close to film in fact none are performing with wide lenses. Sorry if I offend some here but this I wanted of my chest. Your call Mr. Atkins! " I don't think he'll be offended because no matter how many times I read this I don't understand what the heck you're trying to say. If we want to compare the M8 to the Canon 5D, the 5D has a larger, higher resolution sensor than the M8. But even if we say they are in some way comparable, then sell the M8 for $2800 then, not $5000. Interestingly when I decided I couldn't afford the M8, the camera I DID buy was the Canon 5D, even though I had a considerable investment in lenses. It's a lot bigger than my M2 and more complex, but its a great camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric_kim Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 One can use great Leica M lenses on M8. That is the only advantage that M8 has comparing to other digital cameras. I hope M8 is a successful one and Leica keeps making great lenses and provide good service for my MP for next decade. I am happy with Canon Rebel XT for digital side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Furthermore, if it were leica's considered engineering decision to offer IR-block filters right from the beginning during the development process, one would wonder why those filters weren't supplied to their early reviewers. In other words, filters were not in the plan, but an afterthought when leica discovered some people were actually fussy about their photographs.<P>What's really striking, is how easy it is for just regular shooters taking ordinary snapshots in routine shooting situations to come across the problem. Certainly not unique shooting situations.<P> Apparently leica and/or their beta testers weren't very fussy, and that leica assumed their customers would not be fussy as well. Seems some are still not, as the last minute "solution" with filters is being greeted with open arms.<P> <I>However a camera such as the M8 plus a a 28mm lens for $ 1000.00 now I think you lost it. Perhaps you can give us an example the 5D</i><P> Well, the 5D is a <I>far</I> more advanced camera in every respect. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_camp Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Ever notice that half the people on the Leica forum are Canonites? Ever notice that half the people on ALL forums are Canonites? I wonder if they ever take pictures? JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 <I>Ever notice that half the people on the Leica forum are Canonites? Ever notice that half the people on ALL forums are Canonites? I wonder if they ever take pictures?</I><P> Well, I do have a canon (though don't identify with the brand - ie I'm not a <I>canon photographer</I>), but clicking on my name will reveal I do take pictures.<P> How about you, do you take pix? www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nels Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 <i>"I wonder if they ever take pictures?"</i><p>Just not as frequently as you, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry_kirkwood Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 All brands have their new-model bugs, that's a different issue entirely. But it's lucky for Leica they have such an incredibly dedicated customer base because if, at this point in digital technology, Canon or Nikon put out a camera without an effective IR filter and then told everyone they need to buy over-$100 filters for each of their lenses, there would be a mass defection to the other brand and probably a class-action suit. Then again if Canon or Nikon at this point in digital technology put out a 10mp cropped-sensor camera, with or without an IR filter, for $5000 they wouldn't really need to worry about anyone buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederick_muller Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 "Ever notice that half the people on the Leica forum are Canonites? Ever notice that half the people on ALL forums are Canonites?" I haven't noticed that ... but my first serious camera was a Canon Model 7. Later, I bought a Canon F-1, and only much later a Leica, though I used Leica lenses on my Model 7. I wonder if there is some subliminal reason people who use Canons gravitate to Leicas and vice versa. I'm gonna have to check see if their focusing rings turn in the same direction or some such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederick_muller Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Let me just throw a question out there for thought. Just how much do you have to shoot to get an RD-1s or an M8 to pay for itself? On that basis, given your shooting rate, how long would it take for you to get the machine to pay for itself? Think of the thing as a shooter, not a collectible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprouty Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 <I>"Just how much do you have to shoot to get an RD-1s or an M8 to pay for itself?"</I><P>Well if you can get $5,000 per image then I guess you'd only need to shoot one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nels Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 SP - You neglect to include the price of the latest ASPH lens and the absolutely necessary Luigi half case without which no one in their right mind would be caught dead shooting with a Leica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 "Well, the 5D is a far more advanced camera in every respect." So what, it aint no rangefinder. Thats like saying its more advanced than my Cambo 4x5, of course it is true, but so what. "Just how much do you have to shoot to get an RD-1s or an M8 to pay for itself? On that basis, given your shooting rate, how long would it take for you to get the machine to pay for itself?" This is one of the great things about not being a professional who really should figure this out. I don't think of my shots in terms of cost/benefit/when the equipment will be obsolete ect. I buy equipment that I can afford, what fits my shooting style and what I like, fairly simple. "You neglect to include the price of the latest ASPH lens and the absolutely necessary Luigi half case without which no one in their right mind would be caught dead shooting with a Leica." Spoken like a true non-user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 >> Well, the 5D is a far more advanced camera in every respect.<BR><P> >>> So what, it aint no rangefinder. Thats like saying its more advanced than my Cambo 4x5, of course it is true, but so what.<P> Ha, great nonsequitur (and typical knee-jerk response), RJ. Try again reading the complete context of the original statement and my response.<P> Seems my statement as to why photographers would pay more than Bob's value (for a M8 and lens) for a 5D was lost on you. Has nothing to do with whether the cam is an RF or not, but why some will pay more for the more advanced technology employed, as is found in the 5D. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 <I>Spoken like a true non-user.</I><P> Well, I suspect Nels, eschewing the luigi case and the best this and that, coupled with the fact he's actually a <I>photographer</I>, will gladly accept your characterization - a badge of honor, of sorts. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 It's been pointed out a couple of times that the need for corrective filters is nothing new in photography. Why is this message not sinking in? My Dad's model II required a yellow filter to avoid overexposing the sky with black and white film. So does my IIIc, my MP, and everything in between. I use a skylight filter to remove excess blue from shots taken in the shade; 81A, B abd C warming filters; a Tiffen 812; an FL-D for correcting fluorescent light; and a blue filter for correcting the excess yellow of late afternoon sunlight. New technology calls for changing habits. You guys are resisting an IR filter like I resisted Photoshop. OY, all those buttons to learn about and click on. Leica could have ordered the sensor (I guess) with a more conventional IR filter, but I understand the image quality would have suffered. I can imagine the kvetching then: "LEICA MISSED AN OPPORTUNITY TO ACHIEVE THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE DIGITAL IMAGE QUALITY! ALL THEY HADDA DO WAS TELL US TO USE AN IR FILTER ON THE LENS FOR CERTAIN SHOTS! WHAT A LOUSY COMPANY! (etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_breeze2 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I find it interesting that all the folks who own the M8 are out there using them and enjoying the experience and the images the camera produces. It's also interesting that Leica cannot produce enough M8's to keep up with the demand for the camera and there is a backlog for them going into February. Not bad for such a maligned piece of equipment. All the wannabe whiners who can't afford it and the complainers, who will never have one, seem to be the only one's unhappy about its existence. Perhaps the moderator of this forum could sent all you naysayers to a string where you could bitch among yourselves and the rest of us could enjoy the excellent photo's and great experiences of those who really own this camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 <I>I find it interesting that all the folks...</i><P> I find it interesting that all the folks who are the most defensive on this subject don't have any photos when you click on their name. Plenty of talk, though...<P> www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew robertson Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 "Yeah? Which moire filter would that be then?" They didn't include a moire filter? What are they trying to do, commit suicide? In any event, despite the snide fanboy comments from the peanut gallery, my original point still stands. Why not insert a filter on top of the sensor like every sane digital camera company does? Nice attempts at evasion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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