Japan Dec 2006 market, Pentax #3...

... beating Sony...

I mean k10 and k100 cumulated.

Canon seems to survive only due to a single body sales, and this is for the

absolute beginers.

1. Canon Kiss Digital X (XTi/400D), 27.3% of market share

2. Nikon D80, 16.3%

3. Nikon D40, 15.5%

4. Nikon D200, 9.1%

5. Sony alpha 100, 6.3%

6. Pentax K10D, 5.3%

7. Nikon D50, 4.8%

8. Canon EOS Kiss Digital N (XT/350D), 3.3%

9. Pentax K100D, 2.9%

10. Canon 30D, 2.5%

http://photojpn.org/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=781

These are mostly Chinese made cameras sold into Japan market only. I think Globally Canon has 60% market share, Nikon has 30% and everyone else fights over the remaining 10% of digital sales. 2 of canon's 3 most expensive dslr's are due for replacement this year. I've already seen the factory demo's of each becoming available in the last few weeks for 1/3 off original retail. Full Frame Canon 5D are now 2,199 with no rebate required. 2007 is going to be very interesting as Canon releases another wave of new pro bodies that will likely respond to some of the innovations put forth in the K10D.

I remain on the K10D sidelines instead buying better pentax primes for the wife's K-mount Samsung dslr. I've had (great) success the past 3 weeks just buying used Pentax prime glass versus new digital zooms.

I figure if I shift to canon dslr this summer the body, 70-200 2.8, 300 f4 IS and 1.4x autofocusing extender can be easily purchased brand new at B&H, so no hurries for me here to get counted in A Big Retail Poll and nothing I buy will ever count as a Japan marketplace sale anyways.

Lindy

The numbers I saw went

Nikon 45.7% (Excluding D1 & D2 Series

Canon 33.1% (Excluding 5D & 1D series)

Pentax 8.2 % (Excluding K110 & *ist series)

Sony 6.3% (Alpha 100 only)

Others 6.7 % (Includes High end Canon, Nikon, Pentax K110 & *ist series, All olympus, Fuji, and Sigma. No model sells more than 2.5% .)

It tells me that in the Japanese market Olympus is dead. Pentax on the other hand does better at home than the rest of the world - estimates of their market share world wide seem to be about 5%. Similarly Nikon is doing better than Canon at home right now, but not in the rest of the world.

It also tells you each vendor's 10MP cameras are outsell their 6/8MP.

The four 10MP cameras have 64.3% against 29% for the six 6/8 Mp ones.

Anyone who says it's down to Canon doing better advertising and PR is mistaken. The K10D, D200/D80 and A100 (10MP) are all beating the 30D. (8Mp) but Canon have an entry level 10MP camera, and it's selling very well.

Message to the others, if you want sales volume get a 10MP "D60" / "K200" / "Alpha 50" to market. It will be interesting to see if the K100/D40 is still selling in a couple of months ... that would suggest that can sell 6MP if the price is low enough.

It would be nice to see the total numbers of dslr sales and then rank them. I've seen different % numbers than you are using. Alot of my deeper pocket friends have 5D. Some have TWO. Why not include Canon's 5D in the overall total?

I agree, Olympus is dead last in the big dslr race. I read they were no shows at a couple major east coast photo shows a few months ago. 2x crop and teeny tiny viewfinders aren't enough to compete. Plus their better glass is very expensive. $2,000 more for one same focal length lens is just silly.

Prospective buyers should look at an entire system offered by today's manufacturers and not with just their brand loyality blinders on. And thats including just products easily available today, not one day in the future items. Pentax Digital 645 potential owners have been waiting for a few years now for their "roadmap" to become a reality. And when it does happen, at what price?

Lindy

One more thing about the "roadmap"

Will Hoya agree to Pentax Roadmap?

Why Doesn't Canon and Nikon offer their own "roadmap"s for products set to be issued up to 15 months in advance?

I think Pentax "roadmap" is designed to only sell people on buying the K10D bodies and convince 645'ers to continue to wait for pentax medium format digital solution.

Isn't the idea of producing a "roadmap" instead of actually releasing lenses a bit odd when compared to what Nikon and Canon actually does? The BigTwo releases new products twice a year, year after year unannounced beforehand.

Lindy

Releasing a roadmap is waht you do when you don't have the product. It tells buyers to not go to buy Canon or Nikon just yet because the best product may be just around the corner. Wait at least until all is released so a comparison can be done.

Microsoft used to do this successfully always announcing that there would be up and coming version of windows/office or whatever every time the competition released a product.

It works up to a point, but in the end you frustrate your customers if you don't follow through.

Gotta say one thing about this.

Canon while offering a nice lens and body line, hasn't innovated a thing in 3 years.

People might be shaking there head at such a comment but the 1D was a marvel when it came out and the upgrades were very minor over the last few years.

The 10D was a nice camera but the 20D and 30D were half ass upgrades.

Canon almost slammed the door shut on the competition a few years ago. Nikon was dead as the other brands but now nikon is gaining very solid market share by putting out innovative products that convince people to shell out the cash for a new camera.

Pentax would fit into that role as well. They went with minor upgrades but proved that the 6MP market is still strong and forced Nikon to put out the D40 to compete with the K100 and K110 6MP cameras.

Pentax isn't doing all that poorly. Actually it's were it's always been as far as I can tell. And the K10D put it with Nikon in the innovative catagory so it's hard to find fault in this "roadmap".

Again, I couldn't be happier about the pentax lens line (save for the lack of long fast teles). The 12-100mm is an exceptional collection of high end primes and high quality zooms. If the roadmap follows through I'll be thrilled, if not, Sigma and Tokina are perfectly good on the long end (100-300 f/4 Sigma USM is a great lens that should come in Pentax mount within the next year). And I have no issues with the 80-200 Tokina ATX-Pro that I've been using. Scored it for $250 too.

My next lens is the 35mm 2.0. I had to resign myself to realize the Limiteds were too pricey for me. So I'm cleaning up the FA primes as money becomes avail. That and a 12-24 and I'll be set.

The same thing wrote Michael Reichmann, a well known Canon guru here:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax-10D.shtml

"Working with Pentax's latest camera got me to thinking about the current state of the DSLR marketplace. It really has become a two horse race ? Canon and Nikon.

During 2006 Nikon has hit its stride, producing a succession of innovative, well featured and well priced cameras. They've clearly decided to focus on DSLRs rather than digicams, and the attention has been worthwhile.

Canon is still the market leader, but appears to have lost its edge. The 30D is simply a warmed over 20D, which was a warmed over 10D, which was a warmed over D60 ? stretching back to the original D30 of six years ago. Yes, the megapixel size has increased, the rear LCD has gotten bigger, and so on. But fundamentally the past few years have seen little innovation in camera technology from Canon. Their sensors are likely the best in the business; and they certainly have the lowest noise, but as far as photographic creativity Canon has been eclipsed by Nikon, Pentax and others. (No, I'm not discounting full-frame. It's big (pardon the pun). But it's about technological achievement, not photographic innovation).

Canon's 1 Series pro line defined the state of the art when the 1D was introduced in 2001, but that was four years ago, and other than Megapixel count the company hasn't done much market leading since then. The same feature / function annoyances persist with each succeeding generation, and little innovative has been seen."

Justin,

Canon continues to offer two full frame cameras.

Canon offers a 1.3x crop body too.

They use their own sensors.

They make their own glass for their lenses.

They still offer 6 film cameras 2 of which are pro level.

Canon still offers a full catalogue of full frame glass.

Canon glass is available in most major cities to rent. The vast majority of white paint lenses on the sidelines of any pro sport are Canon Eos.

I'm intrigued with the K10D, but I have no plans to buy one now or in 2007. I changed my mind about K10D based on the Hoya buy-out, impossibility to find most of Pentax 2004 vintage full frame glass from any dealer new in the box. Instead, I am eager to see what Canon brings out this Spring in response to K10D innovations. Thats when they release new products, spring and fall of each year, year after year, decade after decade.

I'm glad you like your K10D.

Thats a nice tip on your atx 80-200, Thanks!

Lindy

Lindy,

I really half agree with you on most of the Canon Pentax issue. I just don't think for the average shooter, or even semi pro, that Canon offers a drasticly better product. Unless you want full frame. I personally do, and will be disappointed if Pentax never makes a full frame. I still believe they will regardless of the naysers. However, I'd still keep a 1.5x sensor since I really need the long end as much as I need ths short end. However, IQ with current tech can't really improve much with APS sized sensors.

I still firmly believe Nikon was a little slow into the digital marketplace and Canon exposed them, but Nikons latest products are vastly superior to Canons and the lenses are on par optically.

The fact that Canon uses it's own sensors is a reality and the CMOS sensors are better at high ISO.

Canon has really thrived on the low end market where it's trickled down technology to keep market share. The Rebel is a nice camera for the price but it's not innovative. it's basically a 30D without the build quality or buffer.

In terms of the K10D Canon makes nothing that is in the same class. The buffer is huge and the build excellent. 12 RAW, 4 seconds, with a 150X card. If Pentax puts out a K1D that simply builds on the K10D it should be amazing. And remember when the specs of the K10D were being tossed around months ago NO ONE believed this camera would come to life, yet it is as advertised.

Check out those ATX lenses. Hoya glass and phenomenal build. I have two ATX and really like both optically and build. My 2 Sigmas are not nearly as nice even with the EX grade (pro) quality. I was on the hunt for a KAF Tokina 100-300 f/4 rather then the Sigma but I'm holding out for SSM now.

What's probably hurting Pentax the most in global markets is their huge availability problem, both in bodies and lenses. Bodies seems to be getting better, it's not hard to find a K10D now, but it was for a while after launch. Lenses, on the other hand, are still a problem.

The aftermarket brands don't offer the same range for Pentax as they do for the big two. The justifiably desirable Limited Pentax lenses are sometimes tough to find. The FA 50mm 1.4 is sold out the moment it arrives anywhere. Used popular lenses get snapped up from eBay and KEH and the like very quickly. Pickings among more popular lenses can be slim if you want a specific lens right now. The lack of a good fast tele zoom in the range is a problem. Sigma EXs in Pentax mount are very nice, but often difficult to find.

Justin 50% works just fine for me.

In the past few days I have completely commited myself into future full frame eos digital. I own a nice film body so the lens(es) I'm buying will serve me when I do buy a ff dslr body.

I'm still quite impressed with the wife's samsung gx-1s "pentax DS2" but I've decided against backing it up with K10D (for~me). Having a dslr in hand is empowering and allows me the freedom to make the different choice.

Bottom line my choice relys on the fact that I really live for the 14mm view, and my having that lens already in canon eos is a big plus. Then a couple hours ago I pulled the trigger on a olympus 8mm circular fisheye. Thats another cool thing about eos mount, I can achieve infinity focus with eos, nikon, olympus glass without silly glass filled adapters. Other lensmounts are viable too, but the ones I list are the ones I use on my eos film body.

Today's 8mm f2.8 buy~it~now set my eos ff dslr path in stone.

Lindy

Lindy:

<One more thing about the "roadmap"

Will Hoya agree to Pentax Roadmap?

Why Doesn't Canon and Nikon offer their own "roadmap"s for products set to be issued up to 15 months in advance?

I think Pentax "roadmap" is designed to only sell people on buying the K10D bodies and convince 645'ers to continue to wait for pentax medium format digital solution.

Isn't the idea of producing a "roadmap" instead of actually releasing lenses a bit odd when compared to what Nikon and Canon actually does? The BigTwo releases new products twice a year, year after year unannounced beforehand.>

Well collaborating with Hoya (who are Tokina) on Pentax lenses has been going on since 2004 or earlier so I think Hoya/Tokina are well in on the roadmap. The DFA100/2.8 is Tokina based and as we know the DA10-17 and DA12-24 are a joint venture so why won't we see more once Pentax is merged into Hoya?

And remember, this isn't the first lens roadmap from Pentax, it just gets updated and so far the lenses have been released as they have said they would. Personally I like knowing what their plans are, it fits more with the family approach many of us feel for the company, let's hope it remains that way. It's one of the reasons I will never return to Canon again if I can avoid it.

Regards

I keep this page with the current lens market status on the bigest national photo portal in my country:

http://www.fotomagazin.ro/foto-tehnica_open.php?art=foto-tehnica_obiective-echivalente.php

and I ensure you that more than 3/4 of the lenses issued by Nikanon in the last two years are pure marketing hypes for snapshoters and no use for serios photographers.

And notice I am the owner/moderator of my national Nikon DSLR group on Yahoo, does not mean I am happy and aprove Nikon evolution.