Need equipment advice - Friends will be getting married, can't afford a pro, want me to "do the best I can".

I know, I know. Never shoot a friend's wedding. It can be a disaster. Etc,

etc. That said, I've known the bride forever and she'd be very uncomfortable

with making her parents pay for a photographer that she won't be able to afford

herself. I joked that I could always shoot for her, and well, you know where it

went from there.<BR>

<BR>

I can practice technique well enough and I know that's the most important part,

but I would like some feedback on my lens plans. Please, no comments about the

system I've chosen. I like my Sony A100, it works for me, and it suits the

majority of my usages. I have nothing against any other system, and I admit

that my camera may not be the "best" in certain categories, but it was the one

that I liked the best of the models I held and that was good enough for me.<BR>

<BR>

They're looking to make the date Jan or Sept '08 so I have plenty of time to

align my system with that (since I've only just switched from film and

Contax/Zeiss to Minolta/Sony digital I'm in a re-building phase anyway). I'm

thinking that the following lenses and accessories would be the way to start and

would give good performance for wedding shots (they also coincide with what I

want to acquire anyway):<BR>

<BR>

Sigma 30mm F/1.4 EX<BR>

Zeiss 85mm F/1.4<BR>

Zeiss 16-80 (suitable for outdoor shots, may not choose this due to slow

aperture, but it will be in my bag eventually because this is a near-perfect

walk-around range when I can't carry the full bag)<BR>

Sigma 150mm F/2.8 EX<BR>

Sigma EF 500 DG Super flash (definitely not expecting to use the built-in flash)<BR>

<BR>

Assuming that I stick with the primes, does that look like an acceptable lineup?

Should I consider something wider than the 30mm? Am I completely insane for

even considering this? Am I seriously endangering a friendship if I do this? I

have been very clear that I am an amateur who enjoys taking photos and that I

have not shot a wedding before.<BR>

<BR>

Advice, derision, whatever, any help is welcome.

A friend of mine got his wedding covered by a brother shooting 3-4 rolls in a borrowed SLR for the 1st time in his life.

 

Losing friends depends on their expectations! - How awfully are they snapping themselves? - There are some pros who'll never shoot another pro's wedding at all. Too much hassle and critique for those few $$. - If you're competing with a aunt's $150 P&S you should do fine.

 

Advice: Get plenty of consumeables (batteries, memory - for RAWs!) 150% overkill are essential. Use one battery, charge another, expect 3rd to fail. Get able and used to operate your old Autothyristor flash on the DSLR too (-backup!) - 3 sets of batteries again! Get a brick of half reasonable film and batteries for your Contax and leave them in the trunk or have somebody condemned to carry that bag for you. If you traded in the Contax try to borrow some Dynax5 / whatever. Ask 3 owners to get 2 cams and have one survivor. (Some dealer told me the story of a journeyman photographer shooting a wedding: Nikon SLR: failed. Digi P&S: batteries empty! - 2 disposeables saved the day...)

 

I'd prepare to shoot something wide too, at least the 16mm of your zoom.

 

Somebody will surely suggest flash modifiers and bracket too. Get a idea how to carry your essential other pair of lenses. Back up your personal needs (shirt & trousers, contact lenses?, pain killers).

 

Get a idea of posing formals! Previsualize something to be done with bride and groom.

I guess the 30mm, will be a slightly long normallens on the Sony, which means very

useful. If you are able to get enough distance for wholefigure, and for rhe close-ups the

Zeiss 85 1,4 is a wonderful lens, which is capable of blurring out the background at large

apertureopenings. The Sigma 150 is very long, I would myself carry a Zeiss 50 1,4

instead(if I could afford it). The 50 will be the easiest to use well on fullfigure ,and

halfigure(30 in narrow space). For the groups 30 can be nice, but you might need a

wideangle(Maybe the 16-80will do nice). If you still got your filmcamera, I would have

used it too, especially for the possibilities of larger prints (5000dpi scan gives you 90mb

8 bit rgb).

I ment that the 85 is a great portaitlens for closeups and halffigure, that also can be used

on fullfigure if you have enough shootingdistance.

I'm curious, what if the bride asked you to cater the affair, or to style her hair? You must have some kitchen utensils, and a pair of scissors?<p><em>Moderator note: Steve - this kind of comment is not helpful or allowed. I will leave it this time (I usually delete these from you) because of the amusing reply below. Although it is perfectly valid to explain the risks of shooting for a friend - we try and be helpful here.</em>

A bride asked me to cater her wedding, and I did.

 

I married her, too.

I should also add that we hired a "pro" to shoot our self-catered wedding. Lets just say that the food was of a much higher calibre than the photography. Sadly I couldn't shoot my own, cater my own, as well as be a groom in my own.

 

Shooting a friend's wedding isn't strictly taboo. In some situations - not all - it might be the right, even best, thing to do. I reject the notion that "only professionals" should take on such a task.

 

Not all weddings are high fallutin' spare-no-expense affairs. Most probably shouldn't be, but that opinion has nothing to do with photography but more on the "solve it with a pocketbook" insanity displayed by many.

<<<uncomfortable with making her parents pay for a photographer that she won't be able to afford herself.>>>

 

After the wedding is over. Many years from now what do a couple have for the family to remember?

 

The photos and maybe a dress, ....... maybe.

 

List all the other "silly" things money is being spent on and then decide on a photographer.

 

What does one pay for a used car that will last only a couple of years?

 

Now, is spending good money on wedding photography a good "investment" or is it just something near the bottom of the list of priorities for the wedding at hand?

 

I'll guarantee that the list of expenses for the wedding, when reviewed years later, will put the photography at the Top of the List. Be forward looking, get priorities straight right now.

 

Put the photography at the top of the list and spend the money accordingly. Do it now, Not 23 years from now.

 

(The above is what a friend would say to the bride ... you can ask to help the hired photographer or get permission to shoot as a second to capture non-pressurized shots that will only add to the great pile of photos they will enjoy for years to come. Be a friend.)

I have shot three different (informal) weddings for close friends of mine, and was the second shooter for an aquaintence's wedding. (Another friend was the main photographer - it was her friend's wedding). I always let them know that I'm not professional and I've usually given them my services as their wedding present from me. Most of these people wouldn't have had pictures at all, if I hadn't done it for them. I realize that as photographers we feel that the photos are the most important investment, but many people (at least around here) feel it is the first thing that they can cut when the budget is tight.

 

I feel just do the best you can and everyone will be happy. After all, they are bound to be better than the disposable camera on each table route. And if they complain - remind them that they should have paid for a professional if they wanted perfection.

As a back up give your friend a gift of a dozen disposable cameras and have her put one on each table with a note to ask the guests to do some shots. The shots may not be album worthy but added memories will alleviate some of your burden.

 

I understand the a100 has built in stabilization (instead of on each lens). If so, be sure to use it as well as adjust your asa as needed (don't forget to set it back)

 

Finally - Photoshop CS2 - you are going to be spending some time there before delivering the disk.

I got my start shooting weddings for friends, the first one was ok and the second was good and it kept getting better. The last one I shot the bride cried (happy tears). My advice is do it if you feel want to. You will be nervous and possibly sick with worry(I was) But if you take the time to look at other people's work and really try to get the poses down you will be ok. If the wedding is at night ask the bride not to dim the lights and really practice your low light situations with your flash. I practice at night in my house with my kids (drives them nuts) but it helps. Also try to visit the church and run through the ceremony and look for good places to shoot. Read as many of these forums and learn as much as you can.

Good Luck!

Only you can answer whether or not you feel capable enough to handle the job. Can't really tell much from the photos you have posted in your photo.net gallery... I'll assume you have a real portfolio elsewhere. Take the job seriously, do your research, shoot a lot of tests with whatever gear you plan on using under similar lighting conditions, study a lot of other wedding images, have backup equipment/supplies... and you will probably be alright. If you can get a gig assisting on some weddings beforehand, that would be a wise thing to do.

One last comment on the "should you even do this" question, since it would seem a number of professional wedding shooters are, pardon the pun, trying to shoot you down here, is to consider the source of that advice. Some of that advice is self-serving, and I do not mean that in an overtly negative way.

 

After all, one doesn't get in the service business, of any type, unless you truly believe you are offering a valuable service which your target market needs. Professionals in any line of service work often become blindsided by their own opinions and the "rightness" of their own approach and personal sense of value. That's not to say that they don't have value to offer, and that their opinions are not in and of themselves valuable and worthy of consideration - but rarely does one person's opinion suit all possible takers.

 

The perception of value from buyers isn't universal; to use the food service example of another, the same is true for catering. For one bride and groom an exquisitely catered event might be a total waste of cash, if their culture and family are more at ease and prefer down-home cooking or buffet style.

 

Wedding photography isn't homogenous - not the delivery of the service nor are people's requirements.

 

If I were in your position and had satisfied myself that helping the bride and groom was truly in their best interests and not my own, I would make sure your bride and groom to be are fully aware of the options open to them, however limited, and understand what they won't be getting depending on which options they choose, and do so in a way that is informative to them so that they can make an informed decision.

 

I suspect you've already done this, but to reiterate: I would carefully ascertain, without influencing them, what the B&G's tastes are. Some just won't be happy without an all-out glitz package replete with soft-focus filter effects galore. Others won't want much by way of staged formal groupings except perhaps to satisfy the parents and in-laws hangups over same... and will be happy with one or two very nice portraits and a great many artfully done candids.

 

We fell into the latter bucket; I never look at the group formals. Ever. But we have in prime display many candids done "street style", some of them done by us on our own, only a few from the "official" shooter. Our favorite shot of the two of us is a simple stand-up portrait in black and white. Had I not pushed the shooter to load up one of her Bronica backs with B+W, we'd not have had the shot I am sure. Our second favorite shots include candids of us wearing wayfarer glasses (again in b+w) and me in shorts cooking just before the main event, not to mention me helping my bride, dress and all, up into my vehicle which was then a four by four Ford well off the ground.

 

I suspect its still true, even in this Internet age, that many B+G's don't really know what they want but follow along a path mostly prescribed by others. Those that have done much more investigation than was possible in my day and age will have come across distinctly different styles, if they persist in looking, and might have a better defined idea of what they really want and perhaps even who they want to do the work.

 

If I were getting married today I'd do a search for shooters using medium format, film, rangefinder, and black and white - in the hopes I'd find someone with experience who speaks my language (the first two or three notions) that is at least aware of the potential for interesting environmental photography in more of a PJ style (the latter two notions).

 

My wife's best friend on the other hand would search for "soft focus" and "group formals", above all.

 

The bottom line is make sure you know what their taste is and expectations really are, and poke your friends to identify that for themselves first and then for you.

 

Oh yeah, maybe you should hang on to your Contax for a bit longer; in addition to the digital, carry or have available to you at least 1 body stuffed with B+W film, optimized to add or remove contrast depending on the location and the day.

Re whether you should do it--it depends on your friend's expectations and your ability to meet those expectations. No one can really answer for you. Find out what she is expecting in the way of photographs--just a few formals or the whole PJ style, 1,000 shot set of images.

 

Lens choice is affected by the above as well. While the 16-80mm is a slower zoom, it can get you by in a pinch (if this is the only wedding you are going to be doing) if you use a tripod and if the ceremony is in a church. If it is outside, you will not have nearly the same kinds of problems. If it can get you by, you need not get a wider prime lens. If it can't get you by or you decide not to get it, you may want to consider a wider lens, or renting something wider. Otherwise, the lenses you show should work fine. With flash, the zoom should also work fine.

 

Since you have lots of time, start studying now. Read everthing in this forum, as well as possibly Steve Sint's book and Glen Johnson's new book. Practice every week. Read the planetneil article even though it is more about Nikon and Canon flash systems. Ask more questions once you find out more about the actual wedding details.

First, don't mind Steve.

 

Second, I have shot friend's weddings with no problems. My only thing is that it is tough to do business as usual with friends - they sometimes expect a lot for very little and. Of course, it depends on your friends!

 

IMHO, most photographers should think about their technique, their timing and their vision more than their gear. Most modern DSLRs are perfectly capable of capturing what we want if we learn how to control them properly to execute the image that we are after.

 

I don't know those lenses, but it sounds like your range is fine.

 

learn how to use flash in a flattering way. learn bouncing and diffusing and sidebouncing.

 

learn how to expose properly.

 

learn how to pose people.

 

learn how to be a nice photographer.

 

learn how to compose with intention. learn the rule of thirds, and all that jazz.

 

read a lot on this forum and practice as much as you can until you are comfortable.

 

do the above, and I'm sure you will do fine.

<<<do the above, and I'm sure you will do fine>>>

 

 

The above will only take a few years to grasp, best get started quickly (winks!).

 

Good Luck Aaron, let us know how you do.

I did this for a neighbor even though I really didnt want to. It was a wedding at a house with the ceremony and the reception in the backyard... pretty quick and simple.

 

My answer- "Im not charging you so I dont want to hear it if you dont like the pics or a computer eats them."

 

Turns out she just wanted snapshots, and thats what she got. As far as decades later looking at pics together and wishing they had spent more... well, lets just say I think the odds heavily against that.

 

Before anyone cries foul, I was going to have to be there anyway (daughter was flower girl) and would be taking my camera anyway.

I think your gear is more than adequate.

 

As long as you understand the basics of your camera, and photography in general (I don't know many people who buy f/ 1.4 glass that shoot in program mode)you can and should do it...

 

Usually indoor bouncing and outdoor fill flash is the biggest struggle. If that is a mystery, then try to hook up with a pro and assist a season. Nothing like shooting 10,000 images over the course of a season to learn flash technique and wedding basics.

 

For that price I would do a bare minimum of formals. Those are a misery, especially if you are doing it for nothing. If they want more tell them to hire a photographer.

quoting:

 

___

 

<<<do the above, and I'm sure you will do fine>>>

 

The above will only take a few years to grasp, best get started quickly (winks!).

___

 

fair enough.

 

however, learning the basics of exposure can be done in a few days if you are smart and think about it and have a good learning system. I have taught students the basics of exposure in three lessons.

 

lesson one: making a good exposure is like filling a bucket up to a certain mark. you don't want to fill under b/c then there isn't enough water (not enough information). you don't want to fill over b/c then the bucket is too heavy (not a good metaphor).

 

you can use a big hose (large aperture) and a shorter amount of time, or a smaller hose...

 

you get the picture.

 

learning how to bounce a flash with a DSLR takes another few days. I remember when I was learning all of this stuff with an Olympus OM-1 and film. I would shoot 36 frames, then wait a few days and $20 later and I would have my results.

 

as for posing - here is one basic rule. avoid having people's bodies pointed straight at the camera. if you do that, your formals will be nicer than 60% of the non-pro formals out there.

 

to be a nice photographer, just be friendly. don't be a primadonna. don't have an attitude around your clients. go the extra mile when it is called for. the fact that so many of my clients' friends and family think that I'm such a friendly photographer isn't so much because I'm that great of a guy, but that there seems to be a reputation that wedding photographers are all grumpy old people.

 

the above should take 2 weeks to get down competently. you won't be a master (ie. you might not be able to walk into a room and know the exposure within a stop and see the color of the lights), but you will be able to get 85% of what you need to do to shoot a wedding.

 

the other things - learning how to compose, in particular - takes a while to learn. it comes with developing a style, and that comes with practice and lots of frames. teaching good composition is tough to do, and that's why there are thousands of books about the technical aspects of photography, and fewer about the composition of photographs.

I wonder how many amateur photographers decided to go pro while shooting a friend?s wedding. It just seems to be a common turning point.

Aaron- how long have you had the Sony Alpha100? Do you like it?

"I'm curious, what if the bride asked you to cater the affair, or to style her hair? You must have some kitchen utensils, and a pair of scissors? /// Moderator note: Steve - this kind of comment is not helpful or allowed. I will leave it this time (I usually delete these from you) because of the amusing reply below. Although it is perfectly valid to explain the risks of shooting for a friend - we try and be helpful here."

 

The questions may be rhetorical in presentation but that does not make them unhelpful. Its perfectly reasonable to ask someone whether a photographer should take on a large task for a wedding for free when other service providers usually are not asked to do so. Sure, occasionally these services may be a freebie but we all know photographers are frequently asked to work for free.

 

Its perfectly fair and helpful to have the poster consider these questions. Afterall, we were asked if taking on such a task is "insane" or a danger to the freindship. The fact that others are usually not expected to take these risks is part of the equation. The posters last line also welcomes a variety of comments.

 

These questions are not insulting and are a socratic means to get the poster to think about the commitment that he is contemplating. There is no reason to say his post should be deleted.

<em>J.B.: I wonder how many amateur photographers decided to go pro while shooting a friend?s wedding. It just seems to be a common turning point.</em>

 

<p>That's an excellent question / observation, Jonathan.

 

<p>How many caterers and chefs decided to go to school and/or on to business because of their interest and amateur skill? A great many.

 

<p>I wonder how the now-experienced pros who have weighed in got their start?

Thanks for the input, everyone.

 

It seems to be mostly guarded, but favorable. Just wanted to see if those "bridezilla" horror stories were common, and they seem to be the exception and not the rule.

 

To the poster who asked about catering and styling hair; she has a mother and a sister (respectively) for those functions. This isn't a case of trying to cut corners only on photography; it's a case of knowing her and her fiancee's financial limits. Neither her nor her betrothed is interested in extravagence or in pushing costs onto their parents.

 

I'll work on some technique for the next few months and work from there. Appreciate the information; you've all been very nice.

Aaron, feel free to contact me off the forum. I'm a Minolta user.