Any new digital RFs?

So now that Leica has M8 out there with all of its benefits and drawbacks are

there any rumors or news about RF competition and their new and improved

(up-coming) digital RF models? Zeiss (perhaps digital Ikon)? Cosina (yeah,

they've got RD-1 but is there anything else coming up)?

Thanks

I think it's quite telling that the RD-1 was a dead issue while everyone was waiting for the M8 but now they've started selling again. The price drop from $3K-$2200 didn't hurt, but everyone knew the price of the M8 long before it came out, so it's hard not to conclude a number of people were putting off buying the RD-1 until they saw what the M8 was about.

I haven't been paying much attention to this issue , but have they solved the focussing problem with the RD-1 using Leica lenses ?

I haven't noticed any problems focusing an RD-1s with Leica lenses. Epson or VC have to kill the bad rap they are getting for quality control, because some bad press early on is killing them. There were posts when the RD-1 first came out with guys taking rulers out and fussing to correct one-inch backfocus issues at minimum focus distance. Posts about how there was no way the shutter was going to last 10,000 cycles. That's like 277 36-shot rolls. I've taken it through almost 5,000 without mishap, knock-on-wood, and the machine's practically paid for itself.

 

Quality control is a distribution. There will always be the lemon in the bad tail. Even Leica has a bad tail. The question is variability, and how likely you are to pull from the wrong tail. From what I've seen, VC's in general and the RD-1 in particular have suffered from a lot being made of samples from the wrong tail.

 

I think there is room for another M-mount digital and if it can be released free of the bad press that continues to plague the RD-1 (whether justified or not), it will probably eat Leica's lunch at exactly this point in time.

 

Just to show how bad the spin on the RD-1 is, this post says "Cosina (yeah, they've got the RD-1...)" - but do they? Cosina partnered with Epson, but the RD-1 is marketed through Epson channels, not VC. Right to this day, who knows who fixes RD-1's when they go in for repairs under warranty? Mine is still under warranty for another eight months or so and I hope I don't need to find out. I figure to get it to pay for itself and then run it into the ground.

 

My gut tells me if VC came out with a digital like a Bessa RD, it would get sunk by the quality control rap so fast it wouldn't be worth trying. A lot has been made of how the ZI is made by Bessa to Zeiss QC standards, so I reckon that's the quarter from which the challenge has the best chance of success.

If Canon came out with a Canon P with an M mount and the 30D APS sensor it would have limited wide angle but then the VC 15mm lens would be about a 24mm lens wide enough for many people. It would have good noise at iso 1600 and it would sell well because it would be a much cheaper RF. OK it would be APS but Canon could rerelease old lens formulas with modern coatings and at least 10MP sensor.

I kinda doubt that Canon would be interested in fooling around in the ultra low volume DRF

market. Leave that for the small fry.

"My gut tells me if VC came out with a digital like a Bessa RD"

 

They did (with the help of Epson). It was called the R-D1. Then they came out with another

one, the R-D1s.

"They did (with the help of Epson). It was called the R-D1. Then they came out with another one, the R-D1s"

 

But whose camera is the RD-1, Andrew? Can you bring an RD-1 in for repairs at a VC dealer or do you go to the local Epson photocopier service center? When they go in under warranty to Epson, does Epson then ship them off to VC? It says Epson on the camera, nowhere does it say Voigtlander Cosina. Despite the partnership, the camera is being marketed under the Epson badge and there are no visible links to VC other than the Bessa-like chassis.

I think the common denominator in low quality RF's is Bessa, which may make them ideal for digital cameras with short lifecycles and high plastic content.

 

Leaving the higher end film and digital build quality to Nikon, Sony (K/M), Pentax (Hoya), Leica, and maybe Canon's high-end offerings.

 

The RD1s sure have a lot of problems it seems (although mine is working fine so far), but so have the ZI's which were thought to be a little sturdier than the plasticy Bessa line.

 

Time will tell.

"The RD1s sure have a lot of problems it seems (although mine is working fine so far), but so have the ZI's which were thought to be a little sturdier than the plasticy Bessa line."

 

The ZI's have reliability problems? I hadn't heard that. Is it anything in particular.

"The RD1s sure have a lot of problems it seems (although mine is working fine so far)"

 

Comments like this must drive the RD-1 marketers crazy. It's like a lesson in how to turn a positive experience into negative publicity. Absolutely astonishing to watch.

 

Now, with respect to the ZI, I haven't seen any negative press at all.

The most frequent complaints with the RD1 are the VF going out of alignment, and an occasional shutter lock up, both of which have been fixed by non-Epson RF techs so far, and a lot of DIY info. on the alignment.

 

On the ZI, there seemed to have been a bad batch a while back where they weren't focusing right, but were fixing them for new owners in a timely manner.

 

In any case, look at any Cosina product, it's mostly plastic with as little metal as possible. It appears to be made to last about 18 months, like Fisher Price toys.

I have to say that in the time I owned my Epson RD-1, it was nothing but a joy to use for the most part. And most of my issues were solved with the RD-1s firmware update. I think a lot of the "RD-1 has problems" rap comes from people repeating what they read somewhere, not from actual users.

 

Most users I know love the camera. I sure would have kept mine if I could have afforded to have $4k in a camera and lenses that wasn't earning me any money.

Zeiss wil make a Digital RF camera soon, and really put the pressure on Leica to get its M8 in order.

There is an old saying that a rising tide lifts all boats. The M8 is going to be fine once the bugs get ironed out (read: re-design the sensor cover, guys). In the end, we will all benefit from improved technology and wider consumer choice.

"But whose camera is the RD-1, Andrew? Can you bring an RD-1 in for repairs at a VC

dealer or do you go to the local Epson photocopier service center? When they go in under

warranty to Epson, does Epson then ship them off to VC? It says Epson on the camera,

nowhere does it say Voigtlander Cosina. Despite the partnership, the camera is being

marketed under the Epson badge and there are no visible links to VC other than the

Bessa-like chassis."

 

Epson requires you to mail in your camera, just as Leica does. However, there are several

people who will work on the R-D1 outside of Epson.

 

Just because the camera doesn't say "Voigtlander" doesn't mean that it wasn't a

Voigtlander, just as the badge "Leica" slapped onto some Panasonic digicams doesn't

signify a lack of Panasonic's involvement.

 

As far as being 'sure' that the M8 will be a fine camera "once the bugs are ironed out",

don't you think you ought to leave the faith-based beliefs inside the church and away from

the camera store?