The dearth of wide prime lens for crop sensor bodies

I'm moving from Canon FD to Digital and I've purchased a 30d.

I thought I could apply 30 years of experience to this but I was

confounded by the lack of short focal length prime lenses.

My approach to digital was straight forward. I like to be able to shoot anything.

Get a good prime wide angle like a 16-17mm ( 26-28mm 35mm equiv) ,

a decent mid-range zoom 20-85mm zoom and a decent prime telephoto 300 mm f4L.

It was easy to find the last two lens but I can't find a decent wide angle.

I really don't want a wide zoom, never used one with 35mm film cameras.

I'm looking for a decent prime wide angle 16-17mm.

Any thoughts?

Canon does not make a wide prime < 14mm, but the 14L is very expensive. There's the 15mm fish but that is not going to help you unless you want the fish effect.

 

If you're so into wide primes, why didn't you get the 5D full frame?

 

I have the 5D and enjoy my 24l, 35L and 16-35L. I think you should've went full frame.

Zoom have improved a lot in the past 30 years. Join the new millennium. Get the 10-22 Canon. Fine lens.

Get the EF-S 10-22. Good lens, not expensive. If you want faster, it's the 16-35/2.8L. If you want smaller, fast and wider it's the 14/2.8. If you want fast, wide, and small and the 14/2.8 isn't it, you're pretty much totally out of luck.

 

There's a hard to find maunal focus Pentax 15/3.5 and a Pentax 18/3.5 that could probably be adapted, but really it's not worth the effort and inconvenience, even assuming you could find one.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath for APS-C format wide primes or even full frame wideangle primes between the 14mm and 20mm.

 

Not sure where you found that 20-85 zoom though!

Welcome to modern tech, and the 1.6 crop factor!

 

5D?

 

Or, when Canon will release a reasonably priced full frame body?

 

Please, let's finally SMOKE Nikon.

"Please, let's finally SMOKE Nikon."<p>What? No competition so Canon can charge even more? Let's hope Nikon come out w/a $1500 FF body!

If you just gotta have a 17mm prime, Tokina used to make a decent 17mm 3.5 prime. Watch

ebay and KEH and one will pop up.

 

If you're really into wide primes it may be cheaper to sell the 30D and buy a 5D. The going

price is $2700 and there's a $300 rebate (doubles with certain lenses). Then you can buy a

cheap but excellent new EF 28 2.8 for $160.

- Tamron 14/2.8 SP IF Asph.<br>

- Sigma EX 20/1.8 DG Asph.<br>

- Canon EF 14/2.8 L USM <br>

- Canon EF 20/2.8 USM

Let's hope Nikon come out w/a $1500 FF body!

 

...And Sony. To muddy the water a little more.

I was in exactly the same situation 2 years ago and agonised about this myself.

 

There was a Tokina 17mm prime but I think this is no longer made. The simple fact is Canon and other manufactures have developed their zoom ranges more than primes at the wide end. The widest afordable prime is the 20/2.8 but it does seem the 17-40 f4L is at least as good and probably better as this, although a little slower.

 

In the end I have a f4 zoom + fast primes system compromise and prime only above 100mm.

 

You can read a lot of my thoughts about lens selection at http://www.zen20934.zen.co.uk/photography/lensselection.htm and see what hardware I have now at http://www.zen20934.zen.co.uk/photography/mynewhardware.htm, this may be of some interest to you.

I'd consider the 15/2.8 and de-fish it in software.

 

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/imagealign.shtml

 

If I had an EF-S capable body like the 30D I'd buy the 10-22 USM.

 

 

Happy shooting,

Yakim.

If you're moving from Canon FD to digital you're jumping forward across about 20 years of optical design development, most of which has concentrated on zooms. I also go back to FD days (and, indeed, FL!), and it was only really at the end of that period that zooms became much better than curiosities. Things have moved on a very long way, and you really do need to think again about your attitude to zooms. Some of the most spectacular advances have come at the wide angle end. The EF-S 10~22 is an excellent lens that I very much enjoy using, as is the 17~40. I haven't used the 16~35, but by all reports it is pretty comparable overall with the 17~40, better at some points, less good at others. You'll hear very few claims that the EF 20/2.8 (which I think is a design inherited from FD days) is any better than the 16~35 at 20mm, and that's a measure of the progress that has been made.

I shoot 20D and 30D. For wide angles, I have a 17-40L wide-normal zoom (which is excellent), a SMC Pentax 18mm f/3.5 and a Tamron SP 14mm f/2.8. The Pentax requires an adapter and is manual focus/manual aperture, but's a sweet lens. The Tamron is fully EOS compatible. I'm also starting to use a Carl Zeiss Contax Distagon T* 28mm f/2.8 with Nodal Ninja panorama head to shoot&stitch for wide angle photos of static subjects, but it doesn't cut it for dynamic scenes. I agree that the Tokina AT-X 17mm f/3.5 is probably a very nice lens. I used the Tokina 17mm f/3.5 SL RMC (a step down from the AT-X) on Pentax film, and it was very good.

While not quite short enough, the Sigma EX 20/1.8 DG Asph. is a very nice lens.

Wow! great replies. I've tried to read everything available ( Bob Atkin's reviews were very helpful ) but I'm still learning in big increments. Yes I now understand the FF advantage in the wide range. Makes perfect sense. The cost of the FF bodies held me back. In the mid-range I should have said 24-70mm L, which looks attractive.

I was trying to purchase lens for the 30D that could later be used on a FF. But the repeated positive mention of the EF 10-22 is encouraging. I should just work with what works for now. I do need to Zoom into the new millennium :). I'm just trying to catch up before I'm shopping for a camera bag that attaches to my walker :). I'm still reading these replies and I thank you all very much.

If you have been a steady prime user, remember that zooms will not have depth of field scales. For many this is especially important for wide lenses and landscape work - precisely where there are very few options in Canon's line. If you don't work this way, the 10-22 will be a great lens, but if you need to know what aperture to use to be sure that the rock, the tree and the mountain in the background will all be in focus, I'd continue to search for a prime.

Hello Peter;

 

I am going a little bit off the mark here, but have you considered the excellent Canon Ef-S 17-55mm/f2.8 USM IS?

 

As reported by photozone, (The image stabilizer provides an equivalent effect of a 3 f-stops gain in shutter speed for hand-held photography (at cost of slower shutter speeds).)

 

http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/canon_1755_28/index.htm

It is probably implied by previous posts, but as someone who has done photography for a

long time there is a pretty good chance that a full frame body is going to be in your future

before too much longer. While I doubt that you are going to sell the 30D and replace it

with a 5D or equivalent right away, do consider the selection of lenses you would want on

a full frame body at some point in the not too distant future.

 

This is important if you go with the 10-22 zoom since it is an EF-S lens that only works on

crop sensor bodies. It won't work on full frame, so you would either have to sell it at that

point or keep the 30D as a second body and use it there. (Though the 30D might actually

be more useful for telephoto shots.)

 

By the way, my thougth that you'll be a full frame body users before too long is partly

based on your long experience with photography and you interest in wide angle lenses,

where full frame definitely has an advantage.

 

Dan

Another vote for the Canon Ef-S 17-55mm/f2.8 USM IS. People keep talking about full frame and that you have to buy lenses that will work on the 5D.

 

But the fact is that fastest and sharpest zoom with IS in the normal range is the 17-55mm. You can't get a f2,8 zoom with IS for full frame. So enjoy the advantage your new 30D has over the 5D.

Henrik, after spending another 6 hours I'm taking your advice as well as everyone's before.

I have a 1.6 and I want to get going and learn this new format. I do have extensive manual background and will make up a cheat sheet on depth of field for the zooms. I have a 30d and I'm going to enjoy it. Just like my A1 AE1 F1 and all the lenses I enjoyed ( and will continue to ).

It seems that software to correct deficiencies is key. ( barrel, vignetting CA ).

Lester, thanks for the links I learned a great deal.

Yakim, that fisheye ImageAlign is amazing.

Thanks again to all and Happy Holidays

I know you have already invested in Canon, but I would like to drop a word for Pentax. Their new K10D seems to be a very good camera, and they have a nice selection of prime lenses from their Limited Edition, both full-frame and 1.6X.

 

For myself, I have always thought Canon in terms of digital (I still don't have a DSLR, my 1V and Fuji slide film seem to keep convincing me, I wonder why?), but Pentax is making very interesting moves. They seem to be one of the few companies that really cares about prime lenses, and they know how to make top quality glass, that is for sure. It's just a shame they don't advertise more agressively.

<p> Apart from the system issue (which will force the OP to sell <i>all</i> his equipment), which wide primes Pentax have?</p>

 

<p> Happy shooting, <br>

Yakim. </p>

"remember that zooms will not have depth of field scales"

 

This is true, however it is worth pointing out to the OP that the DOF scales on the primes are of limited use. Something I did not recognise myself untell the lenses came through the door.

 

The modern AF lense has a very short focus arc and so only the larger f numbers get noted on the DOF scale.

 

So for example the 50/1.4 only has f22 marked (not a lot of use on an APS-C camera where the diffraction limit is f16). In the 20-28mm region they are marked from f8 which is a bit more usefull.

 

This is not too bad for hyperfocal focus (as long as you take account of the worst case position of infinity focus) but not a lot of help with setting DOF when the far point is not at infinity. This is due to the small focus arc which has very limited distance marking granularity compared to FD lenses.

 

I find I have to work in quite a different way in this respect with EF lenses than I did with FD lenses.

Peter, maybe you're like me and you just LIKE using non-zoom lenses. I too started with FD lenses (and am continuing to buy them at greatly deflated prices, thanks digital). Besides all the film I shoot in a variety of formats, I do use a 10D, and it stinks for me at the wide end. Let's just say I'm happy with it for telephoto, but it will probably be the last crop dslr I buy. I look at it more like what will my final product be, rather than the logo on the tool to get me there.