need cameras for student PJ & doc program- help!

I know its a long shot, but I thought I�d ask. I teach high school level

photojournalism and doc photography, and Im looking for anybody who A. wants a

US tax writeoff and B. who wants to unload any older DSLR cameras or related

gear and C. wants some good karma. Being a public school, Ive more than maxed my

budget for cameras but we are still pretty short on kit. Im looking for

donations of older, used Canon 10Ds, Rebels, Xts, or Nikon D70s or D50s. Heavily

used is fine as long as they work. Just need the cameras w/ lens and battery &

charger. I�ll pay shipping of course, from anywhere in the world. If you pay US

taxes, I can give you a letter allowing a writeoff for your donation. Plus, your

helping the next generation of shooters get the skills they need to keep PJ &

documentary photo going into the next decades. Ive tried Nikon & Canon, they

wont help a bit- too bad. Post here or email me if you can help !

ericbeecroft1@hotmail.com

www.waldenschool.us

Eric: Doesn't your school have ANY cameras, like I mean film equipment? Don't get me wrong here I'm not one of those film vs digital types, but some students might have to use film for a while.

While I'm all for helping public education I can't help but wonder with all of the good deals on GREAT film cameras why only request DSLRs? This isn't a film vs. digital thing, it's about education. I would think so much more could learned taking the image from film to a final print.

 

Darkroom supplies are also very cheap with enlargers almost being given away. Have you ever seen a young person's face the first time they develop a print? You won't see that with a 10D or XT. Sitting down with PhotoShop and an SD card is almost like playing Doom, after a while it gets boring. Let them get their fingers wet, let them smell stop bath, let them show you a smile.<div></div>

I'll go with Michael on this. You can pick up film SLRs at potato soup prices - Minolta X300, Pentax M series etc. And film is more in the tradition of PJ - you may have some budding Weegees there!

IN addition, learning the intricacies of film will make the transition to digital much easier, for some aspects.

 

Since a B&W darkroom would be very cheap to setup and maintain it would be a great start and something very exciting for students to learn.

I am not inclined to think that high school students need to go immediately to digital SLRs unless they can afford to supply their own. Out here students are expected to provide their own SLR. Because of a sense of entitlement and little connection to responsibility for school equipment, it is not cost effective to provide cameras to students wishing to take a class of this type.

 

Besides, digital can not truly compare to the knowledge and experience one gains from film. Students can still Photoshop a scanned image if they need that experience.

 

Going to digital so soon seems to detach photography from photojournalism for me. They are the equivalent of a Point and Shoot when placed in the wrong hands.

 

HectorO

I would have helped but as I dont want a US tax writeoff I dont feel eligible.

Our university has all but abandoned conventional film and darkroom work. The professor who taught perspective control with LF has retired, and the hardware seems to have disappeared into the "to auction" bins along with hundreds of "old" computers (older than three years.)

 

The money that supported the darkroom has been recinded, leaving the replacement instructor to depend upon students' resources. They feel that it is inappropriate to ask students to bare the extra burden of film work. This is reinforced by the fact that students entering programs now have, for the most part, never used film, do not want to use film, will never use film in their PJ careers. Commercial photography of any other type is not taught.

 

That doesn't mean that the instructors disrespect film work. One still does nothing but film work for his own use, much of which is recent work still published. It does mean a lot of anguish, however. Change is hard.

 

TO THE POINT - the lifetime of sophisticated digital cameras here is less than one year. Student use is largely student abuse. I can put my finger right on the problem - new users who don't pay for their cameras don't care to learn how to take care of them - just one careless person ruins the camera donated. That camera is often shared, so everyone's opportunity is ruined. It's come to the point that one must ask the student to bare the expense, or let the program fall.

"TO THE POINT - the lifetime of sophisticated digital cameras here is less than one year."

 

How's that work? I mean if they drop the camera and bust it, don't they have to pay the repair bill? Hard to imagine anyone could destroy a D70/D-Rebel in a year.

I've got a box of great working Minolta film cameras that I want to give away. No one wants them!

ﾓHave you ever seen a young person's face the first time they develop a print?ﾔ Thatﾒs a great feeling, one Iﾒd never forget. Whatﾒs wrong with little digital P&Sﾒs, besides the fact they may not be the best tool for PJ, but I wouldnﾒt think the D50 is.

"Have you ever seen a young person's face the first time they develop a print?" That's a great feeling, one I'd never forget. What's wrong with little digital P&S's, besides the fact they may not be the best tool for PJ, but I wouldn't think the D50 is.

About five years ago, I visited the Center for Creative Photography in Tucson, at the University of Arizona. I was there, with a group of photographers, to view prints of Ansel Adams. We were all surprised when the student who supervised the room told us the beginning photography classes at the university no longer required anyone to spend time in a darkroom.

 

Today, though, I'm not surprised at all to see Eric asking for digital cameras.

 

Ok, Eric needs a bunch of cameras. I'd be happy with just one, let's say a D2Xs or a D200 for my own classes (I won't turn down a D80, either, but hey, I'd rather not wait that long). ;-)

thanks for all your measured, thoughtful responses. Im afraid the days of the darkroom are over in a lot of programs, public and private, high school and university level. There are losses to this, but also some pros. The immediate feedback of digital, the very high quality of prints possible, and the fact that, especially in pj, so much is now on digital (or film and scanned in anyway) that its all Im alowed to buy and use. We are all digital darkroom. Plus, we shoot in the field and email/laptop back when we can. We are a very small school; being public, there is no way we can ask kids to buy their own cameras- it would be a huge legal issue, as we have to provide all services to all kids, whether they can pay or not.Having 1 camera wwith 21 kids ? not possible to teach, especially not an advanced, intensive field class. We charge fees, but about 40% of our kids get fee waivers as we are a Title 1 school. So they dont pay a thing. I use the sparse funds I get for ink and paper. Our director runs the documentary film program (she used to make docs for National Geographic), and she has a very limited busget as well. We are a charter school so we got start up monmey to get some equipment as part of our first years disbursement, but thats long gone. I have 21 kids in my advanced class (I dont teach the intro class, they use much cheaper P & S cameras.) Ive contacted both shops and the manufacturers, no go- they wont donate a thing. So I just thought Id ask. The kids can be hard on cameras, but we have insurance options that include any accident, dropping, theft, etc for a full replacement, so we use that to protect our investment. Plus, Im a mean teacher, so they are scared of me ! Just kidding. thanks again- allso need lenses and cards, for what its worth.

As far as the tax writeoff goes, I was just trying to be nice.

Eric I would be happy to donate a manual focus Nikon zoom lens. It won't be alot of help on a digital body with no metering but it would be nice to show kids how to use a light meter. It's an AI lens so it should mount OK.

 

I would still push towards film with just one simple fact. For the cost of one DSLR you could purchase an entire darkroom. We continue to teach kids that life is all about "instant gratification". I'm not entirely sure that's the way to go. If it was me teaching I would use the making of a good wet print an analogy to everything in life. To achieve one's goal requires patience and hard work, and sometimes your fingers have to smell like stop bath.<div></div>

Eric,

Your responses make it sound like your school should drop the idea of a photjournalism class. You simply don't have the budget for it. You've said that film is out of the question and digital is out of the budget. It would be a bad business plan to try to continue a program based on the hope of donation of (not old) equipment. I'm not sure how you can be currently offering the class without having the equipment nailed down in advance.

 

If you consider D70s and D50s to be old, I don't think you have a realistic assessment of what old is. (I'm currently trying to work my budget to be able to afford a D50 which I consider to be a new camera.)

 

Good Luck

I agree with most of the responses here .. I think that, if the students truly have the interest and desire to do this, they should bring their own cameras. You don't need to have SLRs to teach students about documentary photography. Documentary photography is about seeing and being able to visually tell a story. It's got very little to nothing to do with equipment.

Dave, once upon a Time the University of Arizona had an extensive photography program, large enough to support a really phenomenal store right off campus called Scot Photo. But; times have changed. The University is now a city unto itself, where ipods walk around attached to humans. Scot Photo first moved, then faded very painfully until the owner decided to retire. While the Center for Creative Photography is still there and has some interesting exhibits, its dynamics have faded as well. A shame.

<b>Todd wrote: I've got a box of great working Minolta film cameras that I want to give away. No one wants them!</b><p>

I'll takem if yer serious.<p>

Despite your opinion, you're not actually a charity - especially in the eyes of the IRS. There

would be no tax writeoff for any donation made.

Well if shooting film isn't an option, then showing up to class with your own working DSLR

sounds like it's the ante for playing this game.