Photographer: Francesca Woodman

Points very well taken Lutz.

 

I sometimes have a problem with art that draws attention to the artist. Doesn't stop me from loving the work of Nan Goldin for some reason. But once I began to sense that I was looking at the visual diary of a suicide, I began to get the creeps. "Look at me, look at my pain and my anger". Sometimes I don't wanna know about it. My deficiency I suppose.

"I humbly insist that there has seldom been a similar loss of talent."

 

Lutz, that's a very difficult thing to quantify either way. If the poor girl hadn't

taken her life, she may have been better off never taking another photograph

again. Exposing herself in such a literal and metaphorical way clearly didn't

help Francesca in terms of catharsis.

 

I agree with Jackie that we are witnessing something disquieting. Something

almost too painful to behold.

 

Personally speaking, I am uncomfortable with the amount of nudity in these

pictures. I would like to think that this is not because I am a prude but because

I believe there needs to be a valid reason for it. Sex sells, whether it's in art,

advertising or whatever. To bare her soul did she really need to take her

clothes off? Is it that simple?

 

Possibly, looking at these photos and her life, she felt she didn't have

anything more to say? Sorry if that sounds glib. This is a very difficult subject

and I apologise in advance if I have offended.

 

PS: to clarify my attitude to nudity: I had to take my clothes off in a play at

university. The director wanted it done and it was her call. She said there

were valid reasons that it had to be done. It was such a long time ago. Do you

remember Jan Palach?

<p><i>I can't say I found the pictures that interesting. It seemed

like the usual art-student stuff to me.</i></p>

 

<p>And where is your stuff, H.P.?</p>

Jan Palach was a Czech student who committed suicide, by setting fire to

himself, in protest at the Russian invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968 and our

university play was about him.

Thank you for these links, I didn't know this artist. I find the pictures very impressive and sad and kind of ahead of the time they were taken.

"I've seen this stuff in an art book so I'll do the same. There's nothing here that hasn't been

seen a hundred times before in any art college."

 

H.P., I nominate this for most ludicrous post of the year. For your info, the art books and

art students you refer to are copying Woodman, not vice-versa -- she was at least a

decade ahead of her time. Back when I was in school in the late 80's, a lot of students

were kind of preoccupied with Woodman and her photography; it was very fresh and

influential at that time. The fact that a lot of those students later went on to copy her is

not her fault.

Andrew,

what the hell does sex has to do with nudity? much of the actual sexual intercourse in the

world is done with cloth on, only glimps of nudity out there, not open to any third party's

point of view ; >) Much of nudity has nothing to do with sex. THere is nothing but

puritanism in being bothered by nudity, and it is so happened that America is among the

only places that one is likely to come across such view, although they are related to

puritan views that are associated with the three monoteistic religions. anyway, if you are

bothered by nudity avoid it. I find the amount of comments about such psychological

disturbances quit offensive, given that they are related to our own natural bodies, and to

many of us, are connected to our profession as photographers. (and although many of us

deal with nudity, as photographers, very few of us would ever be dealiing with sex as our

subject matter.)

Interesting to see that Brian's proscription against personal attacks has broken down so quickly. So, I take it we're all back to being nasty to one another?

>> THere is nothing but puritanism in being bothered by nudity

 

 

Andrew made it clear enough that he's not bothered by the nudity as such, but that he views it as a cheap trick to get noticed as 'artist'. If you believe that nudity is not an attention grabber, then you should surf the internet a bit to understand how much people are interested in skin.

I go outside everyday and don't ever remember seeing a nude person just walking down the street. It really doesn't have anything to do with living in a puritan society, whatever that is. The bottom line is that most people in the world wear clothes, to show nudity grabs attention of others.

EUGENE SCHERBA , JAN 29, 2006; 05:00 P.M.

I can't say I found the pictures that interesting. It seemed like the usual art-student stuff to me.

And where is your stuff, H.P.?

 

You really need to calm yourself down Eugene your constant red face bellowing is becoming tedious to say the least. Get a grip of yourself man.

 

I find the pixs rather Arty arty for my taste echoing college days. But of course that is my individual take.

So H.P., let me get this straight. When you denigrate someones work with sarcasm it is just your personal opinion...someone denigrates your opinion with sarcasm the forum appears to be falling apart with all the name calling and such. Hmmmm.

Bee,

Andrew said:

Personally speaking, I am uncomfortable with the amount of nudity in these pictures. I

would like to think that this is not because I am a prude but because I believe there needs

to be a valid reason for it. Sex sells, whether it's in art, advertising or whatever. To bare

her soul did she really need to take her clothes off? Is it that simple?

 

My points were: what does nudity have to do with sex?

 

and also: what is this thing about "taking off one's clothes"? I cannot see anything but

puritanism in being "uncomfortable by an amoung of nudity." What does Andrew mean by

a "reason" to take off one's clothes? Why the hell does anybody need a reason for that?

unless, of course, we think that there are good reasons NOT to do so. I cannot think of

such besides puritanism, of one version or another.

anyhow, I agree that taking off one's clothes need not make bad art into good art, but one

need not take one clothes off to be a bad artist. The act of exposing oneself, both

metaphorically and literally is very central to contemporary, as well as to art in most of the

recent history. It probably feels very personal to people and make them feel they are

sincere, which is somethign many artists are craving for. Of couse, as such, it is a mistake.

If someone is not a good artist, so getting naked, as well as talking about his childhood

experience, will not make him an artist but rather a candidate to show in some tabloid. I

don't think anybody thought that this is ALL there is in the work of the artist we discuss

here. The accusation was that it is not original, not that it is nothing but nudity.

It seems pretty obvious that some people around here simply don't want to read what's been written. They confuse an opinion that conflicts with theirs as an invitation to a flame war, which is really rather sad. A forceful exposition of a view is not the same as a personal attack and a personal attack is not the same as a forceful exposition of a view. It would appear that this IS rocket science for some people.

Bob, with all due respect, I think the difference is this:

 

Harvey stated HIS opinion about Woodman, which was what Vic asked in his post. But Harvey didn't ask for an opinion about HIS opinion about Woodman. Personally I think Harvey has a right to his opinion. Harvey's opinion is in my opinion quite independent of any others' opinions.

 

lastly, in my opinion, I think Woodman's work needs a closer look to "soak" it in. I rather like what she did..."right into my alley"??

 

PS, Bob, can we see more of your nude work? been missing those ;)

btw, I kindda like Lutz's take on Woodman's work and life..

we can't fault someone for not liking a Ferrari...etc ;) or the colour red..

>>But Harvey didn't ask for an opinion about HIS opinion about Woodman.

 

 

Consider it a generosity of internet forums that you get more than what you ask for. Generally referred to as 'discussion'. If you can't stand the heat...

 

I'm impatiently waiting for Harvey to show us his picture of his finger. He has quite the sample! So far he hasn't quite expressed how he *really* feels.

Bee, when you are in the kitchen, you'd have to be patient.

'what does nudity have to do with sex?'

 

nothing, necessarily.

 

but surely the nudity in these pictures is all about sex (and death).

 

(or maybe an eel is just an eel, and a melon, a melon...)

>> Bee, when you are in the kitchen, you'd have to be patient.

 

 

Yes, dad.

Being a good boy, I am refraining from using the finger these days.

Thanks all for your comments, it has raised my comprehension of her works. I'm always looking to learn, so thanks again. To feel emotion without understanding is less comfortable that to feel it with some understanding.

�There is nothing but puritanism in being bothered by nudity�

 

I disagree. If I see a film where an actress takes her clothes off I question she

really wants to or is she left little choice by the producer? Also, I�ve done

enough fashion shows to know that most of the models are very unhappy with

exposing themselves on the catwalk. Do you really believe that every model

or actress you see with her clothes off is happy about this? This has nothing to

with Puritanism but a heck of a lot to do with good old exploitation.

 

�if you are bothered by nudity avoid it.�

 

I didn�t say I was bothered by nudity but by the amount of nudity in

Francesca�s work. If you read my comments more carefully you would also

see that I have taken my clothes on stage ergo: I�m not bothered by nudity.

 

�The accusation was that it is not original, not that it is nothing but nudity.�

 

I�m not worried about whether Francesca�s work is original or not. I am more

concerned that you have to talk in terms of �accusation�. Gee, can�t someone

make an observation without someone else screaming �J�accuse�! :)

>>Do you really believe that every model

>>or actress

>>you see with her clothes off is happy about this?

 

 

Most people aren't happy going to work in the morning either. Big deal.