Apo EL Nikkor 210mm

Hi,

 

I wondered who could tell me the difference between the older and

newer Apo EL Nikkor 210mm.

 

Thanks,

 

Klaus<div></div>

1. Use of fluorite elements in the newer version, leading to a drastic reduction in weight and performance (improved transmission). New one has much less glass overall compared to the old one.

 

Downside of the new lens materials is that it's performance is temperature dependent. Performance is adversely affected by variation in temperature.

 

2. 1,500 Euros vs 6,500 Euros price tags :-)

 

3. Nice solid oak box (old version) vs flimsy card board box (new version).

How about the image diameter? The never one is said to cover a larger field?

 

Regarding price tags, the 6500 sale did not go through from what I heard, since the price might have been artifically pushed. $3..4000

seems more realistic to me.

 

Klaus

There is only one variation among the APO El-Nikkors (that I am aware of) that displays this variation in field coverage.

 

It only affects the 150mm f/5.6 lens.

150mm should be 105mm.

Yvek, how can one distinguish the two? Is the one Klaus shows in the picture the old one?

Arne

That should have been Vivek, of course. Sorry for butchering your name!

Arne,

 

this is the new one, slightly different look. I was more interested in th different data....

 

Klaus<div></div>

Pat Raymore can answer your question better, Arne. Where are you, Pat?

The older 210mm Apo El Nikkor and the newer (210mm Apo El nikkor N) are easily distinguished by the filter size. The larger heavier older model wears a 82mm filter size and the newer N model wears a 67mm filter size. The fundamental differences however are beneath the surface in the specs for these two lenses. Both of them produce a diffraction limited image wide open, BUT, while the newer model covers 4x5 wide open, the older model covers only covers 21/4x21/4, and has to be stopped down to F8 before it can cover 4x5 without significant fall off. A more practical difference is that the older 210mm stresses the mount of all but the sturdiest commercial enlarger and the mounting board has a 82mm threaded hole, etc.

 

Enclosed (I hope) is a picture (taken a friend - Arlen, who also has several Apo El Nikkors) of the older and newer 210mm models side by side. Also included in the picture is a newer 105mm Apo El nikkor as reference to the size of the lenses.

 

By the way there is also a 170mm Apo El Nikkor the covers 4x5 but is very rare and I kid you not. There is only one model of the 170mm and it is much smaller than the 210mm. Looking at the one I have here reveals a 52mm filter size. Hope this helps. Pat

Thanks Pat, excellent - this is the info I was looking for.

 

Any info on the 480mm since we are talking?

 

Kind Regards

 

Klaus

Thanks everybody for the informative answers and pictures!

 

Arne

The Apo EL Nikkor 210mm in barrel was also a repro and process lens in the early mid 1960's. It was a symmeterical design with a highest performace at 1:1. It was used stopped down several stops from its max opening of F9. It was often used with a 5x7 copy camera. We had one in a barrel our old Durst 138S 5x7 copy camera in the 1960's, along with a later 210mm f5.6 Schenider Componon in MX compur. <BR><BR>The coverage of the 210mm F9 APO EL Nikkor is:<BR><BR> 355mm at 1:1 ;<BR><BR> 265mm at 1:2,<BR><BR> 215mm at 1:5,<BR><BR> 195mm at 1:10 (often a rough/good estimate swag of infinity coverage). <BR><BR><BR><BR>These lenses were marketed to the graphic arts market, and may or may not have the "EL" marking. Some might have actually a "Durst-Nikkor" branding if made for an OEM graphics camera. The graphics arts market often has special variants of lenses, marketed to this old special market.<BR><BR>Since the max aperture was not mentioned in your question, it is not clear if you are commenting the old F9 barrel lens, or the faster version.

Kelly,

 

thanks, but I guess you are talking about the Apo Nikkor, the Apo EL Nikkors play in a completely different ballpark.

 

Did you take the time to look at the pictures provided? Apo Nikkors which usually were f9 or f10 look (and especially perform) very different from the Apo EL Nikkor f5.6 210mm.

 

Klaus

If anyone is interested I have a copy of both the new and the old brochure from Nikon covering the APO EL NIKKOR lenses. They are in PDF format and anyone wanting a copy only need to drop me an email and I will be glad to email a copy. Email; DURST-PRO-USA@msn.com.

I have spoken to an old Nikon rep, used to sell APO EL's, and he told me that the newer lenses do not have the flourite element and also that the older versions were hand assembled, that is using a laser to align the individual elements, as opposed to the new lenses that are partially machine assembled and using different glass to substitute for the Flourite - this makes sense if you compare the new and old lenses side by side. BUT, this is just hearsay. So make your own conclusions. One difference between the new and the old 105 is that the old 105 is in a brass housing where the new are the modern aluminum casing.

I have seveal APO EL's for sale, 105's new and used, 210mm - new type and also as new and one 300mm. The 210 and the 300 are both in commission for customers, the 300 have not even arrived yet, and therefore I have little influence over price. I can say though that the 210mm was purhased for $5,000, the last 300mm we sold sold for 9,500 and the one previous to that for $11,800.

I have heard from a friend in Seattle that the 105 is now used on Digital cameras and therefore the interest in those lenses have surged. The last 105 that sold on Ebay, about 3 weeks ago, sold for $2,750.00

Jensen

Klaus; the Apo<b> EL</b> Nikkor 210mm <B>F9 </B>in barrel we had in the early 1960's was repro and process lens. It was marketed NOT for general photography; NOT for the normal darkroom crowd. Ours came on a Durst 138S repro camera with a point source lamp. It also had the 60mm F5.6 Schneider Componon-<b>M</b> optimized for larger ratios; the M variant for blowbacks of microfiche cards to 30 by 40 inches; or 36 by 48 inches. <BR><BR>We had the slower barrel 210mm F9 Apo El Nikkor; and the faster 210mm F5.6 Schneider Componon in Compur as our regular lenses. Because these oddball process/repro lenses are no in regular photo catalogs doesnt mean that one should candy coat history and ignore them. Alot of lens variants have been made for the process industry. They were marketed in different channels; different catalogs. The <b>EL</b> id was used on at least two Nikkor process lenses. We had one for over a decade; it came new with the Durst repro 138S copy system we had. It is foolist to assume that the id tag of <b>EL</b> was only used by the faster lenses. There are many Nikkor variants; many obscure ones not well documented. Japan Optical has made lenses since World War 1; there are 1000's of Nikkors types made.

Kelly,

 

are you sure you talk about the Apo EL Nikkors and not the Apo Nikkors??? The difference in performance and cost are quite dramatic, although not as bad as Jens informs us.

 

The recent e@ay prices for the new 210mm are around $4000 now, cf.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7593702521

and the 105mm seem to be around $900...1000...1300 and quite a few show up recently on bay. Yes, there have been two overheated buyers (I know both) who spent $2500, but I guess this won't happen again.

 

Klaus

Although I used to own an old style 210mm Apo-El-Nikkor I never had a chance to compare it to my new style 210mm Apo-El, so still have no definitive answer on which version is the best. I have heard people say the old syle has better resolution and other people say the new style is better. My personal opinion is that either one is an excellent lens!

 

The old style is much larger and heavier than the new style, so mounting it on a horizontal view camera is more difficult, but when mounting on a vertical enlarger/camera this is less of an issue. I must say that the old style is much more impressive looking, the coatings are beautiful, and the wood box is very classy! However on most view cameras the smaller size and lighter weight of the new style is an advantage.

 

I use my 210 Apo-El on a Plaubel 4x5 with BetterLight Super 8k to reproduce flat artwork, for anyone interested I just posted some tests of reproducing a 20 x 30 inch lithograph using cameras from a digital point and shoot to the BetterLight (with the 210mm Apo-EL-Nikkor). If you want to see what this lens is capable of compared to a 5D, check the ORIGINAL size of last 2 images on the gallery compared to the 5D ORIGINAL size image. What I like most about the lens is Excellent flatness of field and total lack of Chromatic Abberation. Although Nikon claims the lens is Diffraction Limited at f:5.6, in the real world I feel performance is slightly better at f:8 or f:9.5.

 

Tests are at - http://www.pbase.com/acelkins/sizedoesmatter