D70 vs D2H/D2X focus speed and focus problems

Hi,

 

I've missed a countless number of once in a liftime shots with my

D70 simply because the camera wasn't able to focus quick enough.

Will upgrading to a D2H/D2X (or the new D200!) allow my lenses to

focus that much faster? I'm mainly using the 17-55F2.8, 50F1.8,

85F1.4, and 70-200F2.8. How about in low lighting? The D70 really

seems to struggle.

 

I've also had this problem where my D70 will say it's in focus

(green focus light is lit) but the camera refuses to fire. I

refocus and try again but still no luck. Turning the camera off and

on or refocusing on a different subject usually unlocks the camera.

Is it time to send the camera in for service?

 

Thanks!

Art

I would guess that you are in the P or Auto mode when that happens. Focusing is pretty fast on my D70 when in M,S or A.

First of all, exposure modes such as P, A, S, and M should have nothing to do with AF speed.

 

I don't own a D70, but I have a D100 which uses the same AF module: the Multi-CAM 900, which has only 1 cross-type AF point, the one in the center. If you use any one of the other four AF points, AF will be considerably slower. Moreover, the AF motor inside those consumer-grade DSLRs is pretty weak, thus AF with non-AF-S lenses, such as your 50 and 85mm, will be slow.

 

Any D2 family camera should make a significant improvement in terms of AF speed since they have 9 cross type AF points and the AF motor inside the body is considerably stronger. Whether getting a D2H/X will solve your particular AF problem or not needs to be tested out by you.

 

The new D200 is an unknown, at least to me. It also has only 1 cross type AF point. I expect the D200's AF capability is somewhere in between that of the D2 and D70. Exactly how good or bad it is remains to be seen when it becomes available.

I own a D70s and a D2H, Yes I love the D2H for the high speed mode,

at 8 fps it doesn't miss a shot like the D70s which is still fast

put when shooting moving objects I all way use the D2h.

I use the D70s for landscapes and snap shots it has a different

image quality and is a great backup camera.

I hope to trade the D70s for a D200 in December.

Keep shooting

Lou

Arthur,

 

Perhaps you need to upgrade your firmware to the latest version for D70. Supposedly the focusing was improved a bit, though, personally I have not noticed drastic change, but may be you will have more luck.

Shun, you are killing me again! You are the same naysayer that was dissing us for talking about the D200 six months before it was announced. There may be no reasonable explanation why the D70 seems to focus faster when not in the automatic modes but my anecdotal experience is that it does. If anyone has a D70 it is easy enough to do your own tests and come to your own conclusion. Focusing speed is relative and no one would dispute the fact that the D2H/D2X focusing is much faster. For $5000.00, I would sure hope the D2X would be much faster.

"I've missed a countless number of once in a liftime shots"

 

If they're countless, they're not once in a lifetime. There are several ways to get around this without wasting money, they include learn to focus manually, or to prefocus and switch the AF off with your fingertip, or to use the focus lock button.

 

Nikon (and Canon and Leica and... ) want you to believe that with a better camera you will take better pictures. Fake. Use the money for a trip somewhere, to pay entrance fees into museums, buy books and stop whining about your AF being too slow.

Tim, AF and exposure modes are totally separate functionalities. If there is something I missed, please do point it out. Otherwise, I see no reason why there is any coupling between the two. You might as well say AF is faster on Tuesdays and Thursdays but slower on Fridays.

"AF is faster on Tuesdays and Thursdays but slower on Fridays"

 

before or after lunch?

Arthur, your lenses are better than what I had, but I had the same problems with d70, and all dissapeared with the d2h. Yes, I missed many shots with the d70, it just isn't fast enough in many cases, especially in low light or with flash or fast action.

 

Don't know about your focusing problem with green light but can't fire, seems strange. Are you using AF Continuous or Single mode? Do you shoot or focus priority set? Are you using central AF spot (which is better) or side focus points (not as accurate)?

 

If you feel you're missing shots because of the camera, and not your technique, then it's time to get a pro camera, well worth the upgrade from d70, and buying used reduces the price difference significantly.

Arthur, Shun is correct. The exposure mode has absolutely nothing to do with the AF speed you experience.</p>

 

I have a D100, (same focus engine as the D70) and just purchased a D2h. There is a very noticeable improvement in AF speed with my existing lenses using the D2H. My 80-200 2.8 is even faster than it was (wasn't bad with the D100). The biggest improvement is with the 300 4.0. This is known for being a slow-focusing lens that's prone to hunting. When used on the D2H, it snaps into focus much more quickly and without hunting. Still nothing like an AF-S, but a very perceptible improvement.</p>

 

I will say, though, that unless you're shooting sports or other fast action, you shouldn't have the kind of trouble you describe with the lenses you list above. You should make sure you have the latest firmware loaded and if you do, have the camera checked by Nikon.</p>

There is no doubt that the D2H(s) and D2X can focus much faster than the D70, but we don't know exactly what is the source of you current AF problem. Certain things can indeed be improved by techniques as Bruno points out. It highly depends on what type of subject matters you shoot. For example, if you shoot a lot of sports or action stuffs, you can certainly benefit from better AF.

 

Moreover, everybody's hand-eye coordination ability is different. Some people can manually focus better and faster than some others.

Those of us with poorer hand-eye coordination may also see bigger benefits from faster AF.

My AF is always faster after a stiff drink. Re-read pages 68 and 69, and page 139 in your manual.

Af is dramatically better on the CAM1300 than the CAM900. The F100 filled in the numerous shortcomings that the my F80 had, so one can extrapolate on how good the CAM2000 must be for action/low light in general. Its hard to believe that one focusing system is so much better than another, but its true. This is the only reason that I haven't switched to digital. Instead, I recently bought a new F100(yeah, I know what I could have got for that price) for the AF system and frame rate alone. It remains to be seen if the D200 can provide F100 like AF performance. And I don't it is simply a question of more cross-type sensors, I think the algorythms that manage the use of these sensors and their supporting electronics(I guess this would be the module) just seem to work better. Not to mention a considerably more powerful AF motor.

 

Try renting one of the D cameras you mentionned, I'm sure you'll find the difference no less than dramatic.

 

Hope this helps

If you think the auto focus is faster in a certain mode, it will be faster. If you think your auto focus is a dog, it will be a dog. I like to think my D70 is the best camera ever made so I can't use it for an excuse when I get lousy and pathetic images.

I run both of those bodies, and yes the D2H is faster focussing and hunts less in low light. Lots of folks are quick to dismiss the need for quick AF "if you don't do sports", but for whatever reason (maybe the cross type sensors) it usually comes with better low light performance.

 

The 85/1.4 on the D2H is a formiddable combination for low light party shots. If you can get a sensor precisely on 'the eye', the AF will nail it. This is at exposure levels on the order of ISO 1600 f/1.4 @ 125. In my experience with the D70 (and mostly the 85/1.8), the AF was pretty sure down to within two stops of that, but you were limited to use of the central AF spot. The other spots would get hunty at those light levels.

 

My current 'biggest problem' is that I shoot them both at the same time; usually with the 70 for flash and the D2H for available light. The control interface is just different enough (game boy pad, number of sensors, ISO setting) that I fumble a bit. I am a dyed-in-the-wool two camera shooter, but as always, it works best if the two cameras are identical. Maybe in the 'next wave' of DSLR trade ups I can find a lightly used D2H for not too much. Unfortunately, the D2H has such a narrow following, it's very hard to find one that is 'lightly used'.

<i>I've also had this problem where my D70 will say it's in focus (green focus light is lit) but the camera refuses to fire.</i>

<p>

I believe this is the problem that's being confused with AF speed. This will happen in "P" & "S" modes but not in "M" or "A" mode. I can't explain why this happens, but I know I've been dinged by it a few times when I've inadvertently knocked my dial to "S" or "P".

With a Consumer DSLR like the D70 and its other variants the D50 and 70s, you are not going to get PRO Speed AF. I have heard stories about how slow the F4s was when it came out and how the F5 eclipsed it. I had a 4004s that used the same AF module as the F4s and also had a weaker motor. My lord, it was soooooo slow. Trying to shoot indoor sports such as hockey was a nightmare...but I did it. I couldn't afford 2.8 glass and $2000.00+ bodies but I did manage to get some great action shots by:

 

1. Turn off the AF, pre-focus manually, and let the depth of field be your guide. A 70-300 f/4-5.6D has great depth of field from the top of the bleachers at a 180mm setting.

 

2. I invested in Higher ISO Film. I could get 800 ISO Fuji fairly cheap and easy. In the case of a DSLR, turn up the ISO setting.

 

3. Have the camera at the ready and anticipate what is about to happen. If you see it in the viewfinder, you didn't get the shot.

 

As far as the having the green light and the body won't fire goes, sounds like you need to check your battery levels. My 4004s and my D1 do this to me when the batteries start getting weak. Yes, they have warning lights, but the voltage and current draw may be such that the alarms don't go off and the camera still malfunctions. Always have fresh batteries on hand as a backup. Learn the controls, functions and idiosyncrasies of your camera and adapt and overcome and the force will be with you. If you still cannot get things to work right, then get another camera.

Arthur,<br>

<br>

It seems to me that you have two issues. One, you are a demanding

photographer who needs a professional grade camera. Two, the

issue of the camera indicating focus but refusing to fire.<br>

<br>

On the first item, you are exactly the type of photographer I

have tried to warn about the D70. Based on my experience with an

N80 and information from early press releases I predicted that

the D70 would have issues with auto focus. I took a lot of heat

for my predictions. Now I see photographers commonly making

expressing dissatisfaction like yours.<br>

<br>

A statement I make often is if one is buying an auto focus

camera, Buy one that delivers on the promise. Another

is that an auto-focus camera should have just as good a

viewfinder as a manual focus camera. I did not buy a D70 because

of the AF issues and the poor viewfinder.<br>

<br>

My experience with AF started with the F4s. I found that I could

focus a split second faster than the electronic rangefinder

indicated with lenses like a 105/2.5 AIS or 180/2.8 ED AIS. I was

doing this on the standard B screen. I found the F4s AF

most useful in very poor light with the AF red assist light from

an SB-24. The AF assist light is limited by nature to AF-S or

single servo focus. The F4s has only one AF sensor and AF-S is

limited on that camera to focus priority. This forced point,

focus and recompose shooting with only one shot per cycle. I

found this very annoying.<br>

<br>

The F5 address all my issues with AF in a Nikon SLR. Now there

are three reliable cross type sensors that work well in low light.

You can set both release and focus priority for use with both AF-C

and AF-S and the AF motor is powerful and focuses most lenses

quickly.<br>

<br>

The D2H takes this much further with 9 reliable cross type

sensors. Faster low light performance and retains both release

and focus priority with AF-C and AF-S. The D2X, D2Hs and F6 have

the same AF module as the D2H but are said to have improved auto

focus algorithms. You can expect not only faster AF but more

precise AF including much more precise selection of the actual

point of focus compared to the D70. These are state of the art AF

cameras. You can expect that if your photo is out of focus its

your fault not the cameras.<br>

<br>

*The second issue appears to me as malfunction and I would have

the camera serviced. Then I would sell the D70.<br>

<br>

If possible I would buy a Nikon D2X. If you were a

photojournalist publishing mostly in newsprint, a sports

photographer or a wild life photographer you might consider a D2Hs.

Id have a hard time paying $3,500.00 for a 4.1MP camera v.

$4,600.00 for a 12.4MP camera. 4.1MP is more useful than most

believe. B. Moose Peterson adopted the D1H (only 2.74MP) as his

primary camera and I believe I believe Ive seen Bjorn

Rorslett say he has sold full page bleeds from the D1H. This

might be in his review of the D2H or else where on his site.<br>

<br>

The D2X and D2Hs share the same body and viewfinder as the D2H

but have various improvements. The viewfinder on these camera is

a small step down from the F5 when the proper normal lens, a 35mm

is used. I find the D2H easy to manually focus under most

conditions. The 12.4MP sensor for the D2X is its major advantage.

The D2Hs has an larger buffer and somewhat better LCD on the back

compared to the D2H. Both the D2X and D2Hs support GPS and the

much faster WT-2 wireless transmitter.<br>

<br>

If you are like me you want your photographs in focus and you dont

want to wait for the camera. The D2H will give you this. The D70

has an edge in image quality by many accounts but 4.1 to 6.1MP is

a small step.<br>

<br>

The D200 is still an unknown is many ways. The white AF assist

lamp on the front is not encouraging. Bjorn Rorslett compared the

D200s viewfinder to the D2X and said its a very good

viewfinder. Those who prefer manual focus should find the D200

pleasing.<br>

<br>

If you have the money to buy a Nikon D2X Id buy it now and

buy it in confidence. If you are considering a used D2H for

budgetary reasons Id wait for the D200. I highly doubt that

the D200 will equal the D2H in AF performance. I think thats

almost a forgone conclusion. I use a lot of manual focus Nikkors

and would likely be very pleased with a D200 even if the AF is

not up to say the F5s performance. The price of a used D2H

will not go up in a month or two if ever so there is little risk

in waiting.<br>

<br>

I bought my D2H on fire sale at $1,995.00 and Im very happy.

Yes I could be happier with a D2X but for me the D2X is out of

reach.<br>

<br>

You have a fine set of lenses, put a fine DSLR behind them.<br>

<br>

Best,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.<br>

<br>

*PS: Please note Jim Tardios statement above. Since he is a

D70 owner you should ignore my statement in favor of his. I dont

have time to rewrite.

First I want to say, wow! I've been on photo.net for a while now and this being my first forum post ever, I am pleasantly surprised with the number of helpful responses. I'll definitely have to subscribe now.

 

In short (no opinions on this decision please), I will wait for the D200 and perform a side by side comparision with the D2X and go from there. Since I'm finally starting to charge for my work, it will be a *little* less painful to cough up the dough (ouch). Ideally I'd have two of the same bodies but perhaps the D70 will become the backup. Nikon has suggested that I send the camera in for my AF lockup issue. I also forgot to mention that I once had a problem with the mirror not resetting correctly causing the image in the viewfinder to display slightly higher than what the camera would capture.

 

To answer some questions below:

- The AF problems occur in any mode P/A/S/M

- I am locked-in to use the center AF point and none of the other four points

- I am shooting low-light weddings (I prefer not to use flash when possible) and events in big dark auditoriums. My style is photojournalist and perhaps I'm not anticipating moments as well as I could be but things happen so quickly and when I'm dead on the subject ready to fire (AF green light is lit!) the D70 doesn't go! I want shoot myself (gun not camera) when this happens. Sometimes I will be quick enough to flip the AF/M switch to manual focus and capture the moment but I am often too late - we're talking split second moments here and many times moving toward/away from me. No telling people to stop for a photo or repose here, they are gone forever.

- I have the latest 2.00 firmware loaded

- I am always using AF-S mode

- I've read the manual :)

- I play video games well so my hand-eye coordination is good? (just kidding, had to throw that in)

- My problems do occur with a fully charged battery

 

Thanks all and Happy Thanksgiving!

Art

>I've also had this problem where my D70 will say it's in focus (green focus light is lit) but the camera refuses to fire.

 

I believe this is the problem that's being confused with AF speed. This will happen in "P" & "S" modes but not in "M" or "A" mode. I can't explain why this happens, but I know I've been dinged by it a few times when I've inadvertently knocked my dial to "S" or "P".

 

----

 

I think I've just lied in my previous post. I believe Tim is correct in that it only occurs in program and shutter priority modes.

 

-Art

My only D70 problems with auto focus have been in fast moving situations like sports. The camera does not "track" moving subjects well at all (nowhere near as good as my 8 year old N90S film camera does). For normal shots,auto focus is spot on though and reletively quick-especially with afs lenses. Since the finder isn't that great, it makes manual focusing a chore and my results were worse manually focusing than with the AF. I did increase my keepers of sport shots by using center focus only,(instead of dynamic multiple area)and continual AF setting instead of single AF.<div></div>

I have a D70, and I've shot a borrowed D2H, and yes, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in AF speed, using a 70-200 AFS VR lens and a 300/4 AFS lens. Like Andrew said, it's the tracking, especially an incredibly fast-moving object where the lens to subject distance changes dramatically.

 

If you can afford it, upgrade to the D2X. It remains to be seen whether the D200's AF speed will be closer to the D70's or the D2X. That's what I'm waiting to find out as well before I decide.

 

KL

I've been using both D70 and D2X on sport shoots and yes, there is definitely difference in AF performance. To keep it short, I use the D70 as a single shot rig (timing, timing, timing,) and the D2X as multiple 5 fps (or 8 fps in crop mode.) Although it's inferior in AF performance, D70 is capable of driving a 300 f2.8 when asked to. D2X with 80-200 f2.8 or 85 f1.4 is instantaneous.

<em>an in focus sports shot, D70 --Andrew Schank<br>

</em><br>

Have another look, the focus is a bit in front of your subjects.