10.3 mp Sony DSC R1 with APS size sensor announced

Its got a live review which does away the need for slr like mirror.

 

what do you think?

 

anurag

It's bigger and heavier than the entry-level dSLRs from Canon and Nikon. We'll have to wait and see if the street price is competitive. Also if the 10 megapixies really give a better image than 6 or 8.

<a href="http://www.dpreview.com/articles/sonydscr1/">Hands-on preview</a> from DP

Review site.

Looks promising. However, we'll have to wait until they can develop an electronic viewfinder and fast and clear as optical... Then it'll be the end of SLR technology. Who needs a flipping mirror, really?

 

Again, if someone can produce an affordable, fast, responsive and high quality EVF, then there will be no reason to continue using SLRs.

 

The new Sony is a step in the right direction.

weight was mentioned above, but since that is with the lens, it's approximately the same that entry-level DSLRs would have with a similar lens attached, so no real difference there.<p>

I'm not sure why they make a live review a selling statement (I guess some people prefer it, though) as opposed to a live view through a mirror or prism finder, which many would consider best.<p>

Anyway, perhaps this heralds a new trend in digital "compacts" (or perhaps non-SLR is a better term?) to use a bigger sensor, which I think is a good thing.<p>

Hakon Soreide<br>

Bergen, Norway<br>

<a href="http://www.hakonsoreide.com">www.hakonsoreide.com</a>

Each of us has different needs in the photography world. For me, backpacking and riding

the chicken buses in Latin America, this camera is just what the doctor ordered. The

sealed sensor will make it easier to deal with dusty conditions. For others, who need a

much greater range of focal lengths, this camera will not suffice.

The electronic viewfinder will never compete with the mirror until we develope time travel so we can go back in time to see through the EVF what the camera sensor saw when it saw it..... :-)

"...The electronic viewfinder will never compete with the mirror until we develope time travel..."

 

Rubbish. They're now flying fighter jets using EVF. How long do you think it takes electricity to travel 10cm?

 

As a matter of cost - when - not if - the SLR technology's days are numbered. I do won a dSLR, however the idea of a flipping mirror is crazy.

...approximately 300,000K per second / 10,000 (speed of light)

 

...or about as long as it takes me to get to the bathroom after my 4th beer

Of course it's possible to produce an EVF with visual quality that matches or exceeds a mirror. Unfortunately, we have not seen what's possible in any current digital cameras. Maybe it's just that a modern jet has a lot more room in its price for quality EVF's. Or maybe when engineers look at quality EVF cost vs. mirror, they just go with the mirror.

 

I do agree that when EVF's can match mirror viewfinders AND the extra circuitry for live preview does not interfere with quality AND the price is competitive with a mirror, the mirror-based SLR will become a thing of the past. However, the current SLR body style, with our favorite lens mounts, will stick around. A Canon 40D with EVF will probably look just like a Canon 20D with a mirror. Which is fine with me since I can hold my 10D a lot more steady than most digicams with EVF.

 

I have no doubt that the Sony will prove to be a capable tool, though I doubt it will draw many mid-to-high end SLR owners. It might hit the entry level hard though.

This is just the first APS-sensor-size camera to be put in a digicam. Others will surely

follow.

 

And don't forget that Sony has teamed up with Konica-Minolta on DSLRs, so we'll

possibly see anti-shake become common in future models.

The top-mounted rotating LCD is...interesting looking. Should make shooting from the hip easier :)

 

I hope the APS-sized sensor in a consumer (prosumer) body turns into a trend. It would be really nice to see prices fall.

<I>...the idea of a flipping mirror is crazy.</I><P>

 

Totally agree. EVF's have improved a lot over the years and will continue to do so.

It won't be too long until they start putting cameras in cell phones. Really.

I wonder if Sony is selling the system to others. When the 828 was released, most of the big players released me too versions. It will be interesting to see what Canon, Nikon, etc. do with this sensor. The lenses were the main differences two years ago. The 8MP 2/3" sensor cameras didn't set the world on fire. The DPreview mentions 2 prices $1199 and $999. I don't see this selling in large numbers at $1199. It certainly puts more pressure on Canon to introduce a stripped 350XT version at $499 or 599.

JC - "The electronic viewfinder will never compete with the mirror until we develope time travel so we can go back in time to see through the EVF what the camera sensor saw when it saw it."

 

Actually, the mirror needs a bigger, more powerful, longer range time machine.

 

The fastest SLRs, like Nikon D2X or Canon 1D II, have blackouts in the 80mS range. Press the button, the mirror flips up. This takes 1/2 the blackout time, or 40mS. Then the shutter opens. A more "approachable" camera (roughly in the price range as the new Sony, like a D70 or 20D) is in the 70mS range.

 

The slowest EVF cameras update at 30 frames/sec, which is 33mS. Better ones do anywhere from 50-90 fps.

 

So, the slowest EVF is faster than the fastest DSLR. ;)

The 8meg 2/3rd sensor A2 is really quite good, and it's 1meg resolution EVF offers some advantages over an optical. For istance, in review mode you can get a much better detailed view of the image than review on a 1/8" LCD. It's like looking at a VGA monitor. Update speed is not an issue either and the view is 100% instead or 95%, or worse in the case of the 350D and some others. Exposure can be WYSIWYG with an EVF. You can have a live histogram and other data displayed.

 

An optical DSLR viewfinder is clear and bright, but that's dependent on the lens max aperture and light conditions. With a DSLR you see what the lens sees, but with an EVF you see that plus what the sensor sees, so you can view the actual exposure. There's more information available.

 

If the DSC R1 expands the prosumer digicam useable ISO I think a lot of photographers will question the current premier status of the DSLR.

For me the big deal about this Sony (and other prosumer P&S cameras) is non-interchangeable lenses.

 

I do a LOT of shooting using my Canon 100-400mm lens. Other times I have a 10-22mm lens on, or maybe a 100mm macro. Thus a camera with a fixed "normal" zoom is a non-starter for me...

<i>"For me the big deal about this Sony (and other prosumer P&S cameras) is non-interchangeable lenses."</i>

<p>

Exactly; these are all beginner cameras, even for semi-pro work this Sony is good only as an extra camera for certain types of shots easier to get in difficult situations where you do not want to pull out your DSLR and quality lenses and flash. Also, the fact that the Sony has a 5-1 zoom means optics are certainly compromised so that offers consumers a quick eye opener: "A 5 to 1 zoom! Buy me!"

For those holding their noses high, I suspect this latest sony will let a good photographer

produce images that are much higher quality than my sony f707 which is now more than 4

years old - and which around 80% of the images on my website were captured with.

 

For others, who are always seeking the "best," well, then a different set of priorities and

motivations come into play.

<p><i>For others, who are always seeking the "best," well, then a different set of priorities and motivations come into play.</i>

 

<p>It's not a question of seeking the best. It's a question of the tool being appropriate to the task.

 

<p>If you are doing, say, bird photography, this new Sony is pretty much useless. If you are shooting in dark environments where I pull out the 50mm 1.4 lens, the Sony is not all that good. Etc., etc...

There is a serious difference in use between an interruption of real-time viewing, like with a mirror movement, and the continously behind the real-time refresh delays in current evfs. You can anticipate or "pre-act" to an even that hasn't happened yet much better than reacting to an event that has already happened.

 

"Live" evfs do offer some advantages of "live" histograms, etc., but try capturing a bat on ball at a baseball game, try capturing a PK or free-kick in soccer or follow a flying bird with a current evf - it's trememndously difficult. Sure, there may some day be even faster refresh rates and better resolutions and better angle viewing, etc. - but in current cameras, for high-speed fast reactions - the optical finder is still the answer for most photogrpahers.

I don't like the LCD on the top.

 

Its more solide position will be closed or upwards, the later being a source of reflections.

 

 

I think on the back of the camera is the natural position for a LCD so that you yourself acts as a wall against lights coming from behind.

 

On the top instead it very much looks as the sun will be always reflected and same goes for lights coming from the ceiling.

 

In addition it will recollect at least twice all the dusk around while it is opened, not to mention what will happen with rain.

 

I hardly use my LCD display but those who have grew accostumed to them will find here a motiv to think it twice before buying this camera.

 

Ok , you can always set it vertically but then the camera looks so awful and clumsy and looks like loosing all its solidity. To me it makes no sense.

 

 

It really seems as though Sony has been looking for the only LCD location that was still to be presented,... a pitty, because the camera has really outstanding features.

Why not just an optical viewfinder like a rangefinder, but that zooms with the lens? the LCD could be used when precise framing w/o parallax is needed.

perhaps because -I tend to believe- a decent non-reflex viwfinder would be nowadays more expensive to develop and manufacture than any other electronical solution