Polaroid 110b to 4x5 graflok conversion-any instructions available?

These are the parts, WAY way later, ready for final assembly.<p>( Note that I haven't moved

the infinity stop on the camera back, yet. That has to wait for the 'optical bench'.)<div></div>

Mr. Schwartz:

 

You have made yourself a clean and lean machine. A beautiful example of workmanship.

 

...Mine looks "prehistoric" as compared to yours.

 

Congratulations. You deserve my full admiration.

Thank you, Diwan Bhathal.<p>This is what my back looks like when it's finished.<div></div>

By the way, Diwan, I've very flattered by what you said about my work.<p>Thanks again.

Mr. Schwartz:

 

Thank you. Your conversion is very mature.

 

In your last picture I noticed how you solved the problem for the light trap in the right side of the camera, where the original film was pulled out.

 

BRILLIANT !

 

My solution was to put a plywood ( of course ) at an angle in that location, this piece resting at an angle in the seam where the camera's body and its seam is located.

 

Your solution can only be qualified as being : ELEGANT.

 

Best,

Diwan, ( May I call you 'Diwan' ? ) you're making me uncomfortable! Don't be so hard on

yourself!<p>I'm a professional prototype maker and have been my entire adult

life.<p>Everything I made at Marty Forscher's went straight to the customer.<p>Every

prototype toy I made at Hasbro had to look exactly like the finished toy.<p>Every tool I

make now for local artists has to work so that they can do their art.<p>Even if you don't

have the machinery that I have access to, you can still do a good job.<p>The most

important part after the camera is assembled, is to set the infinity stop back for infinity at

the new film plane.<p>Here's a photo of using the milling machine and a 'gunsight'

collimator to accurately locate and drill the new screw holes for the infinity stop. Notice

the cable release holding the shutter open so I

can focus on the ground glass. ( You certainly don't need to do it this way. There are

some tricks to making this really easy to do. )<div></div>

When you move the infinity stop back to it's new position, you'll notice that when you go

to

fold up the camera, the front standard strut cross-bar will hit the infinity stop, making you

unable to close the camera.<p>Earlier in this thread, I posted a series of photos of how to

make notches in the cross bar so that they clear the infinity stop when you close the

camera,

and so that the front standard will 'click' fimly into position on the infinity stop when you

use

the camera.<p>If you can't do

that, you might be able to (GENTLY ) lift the cross bar past the infinity stop with your

fingers

every time you open and close the camera.<p>The more you move the infinity stop back,

the

bigger a problem this will be. <p>In my opinion, this is the most obnoxious part of doing

the format change.

Mr. Schwartz:

 

Yes, we are all friends here.

 

This is the way that I came up for dealing with the obstruction of the crossbar as the camera closes. Crude, but effective. Now you see why my conversion is to be qualified of "paleolithic", to say the least.

 

Basically, and as depicted, I chopped off the two little stop lips. I had a problem of the lens board carriage jumping the stop, so I glued (my beloved glue) a piece of wood to act as a stop for the catch.

 

I was amazed that this method worked! The lens board is held parallel to the film plane, and I have not had any problems with it as of now.

 

I also did not do anything to the rangefinder. I did open it up and cleaned it, but no adjustment whatsoever, it is fine for me. I like DOF, so small apertures is my norm. I still do not understand why, if the original lens is used, the rangefinder setting should be tampered with? Maybe adjust for up and sideways centering, but not otherwise, in my mind, this is not needed, the translation part is built in.

 

I like the Pola 110A model of rangefinder with the two windows, the rangefinder window shows the subject magnified, and for me, this is a very practical thing to have. The 110B model rangefinder is fine too, but, personally, I prefer this setup.

 

You are definitely in a very different league than mine, Pros vs. DIY. I have to say, that I did everything with my home tools and goop. It is quite difficult for me to drill small holes because I do not own a drill press. So, I sanded and cleaned the bed of the camera, as well as the stop plate, and the glue did the rest. I hope that it will not fall off... Hehehehe...

 

As to infinity setting, I did this by marking a pencil cross on the GG and then looking at it through the lens with my 35mm camera set to infinity. It is fine, may not be right dead on, but all I can say is that MY setting is very accurate (my estimation only). I checked it with a loupe, and to me, it seems fine. The photographs all have perfect focus ( go figure what perfect means...). No complaints here.

 

I like this discussion, since it allows all to see the range of alternatives that are available for this operation. The really artistic ones, the also very much so, and mine, the "brute force approach". I have to say, that I could not find a Graflok back anywhere, maybe I did not know where to look for one, and also, regarding the camera, I thought that there was too much competition, thus driving the prices up for the 110B model.

 

I have a question. The top shutter speed for this lens ( 127mm ) is 1/300sec. The optimal usable shutter speed is then 1/125sec, I use for handheld, ASA 400 film. I would never use this camera handheld for ASA 125, rated at EI 80. This, I think, limits the choices of films and handheld situations, since one is inviting blur. To operate this camera at full open aperture, to me, and in my opinion, is not to take best advantage of the superb quality of the original lens that came with this camera model.

 

Therefore, I only use this camera handheld in very optimal situations. On the average, I found that I was using the tripod more than otherwise. This is just my observation. I presume that there might be some persons having more hand steadiness than mine, thus using lower shutter speeds. Nice camera overall, very practical, convenient and definitely rugged and well built.<div></div>

Mr. Schwartz:

 

Talk about elegance vs. not very refined.

 

The picture shows what I did for the light trap on the right side of the back of the camera. All I have to say is that no light gets through ! Why? I do not know, just a lucky day of mine.

 

My method is akwardly crude. Luckily no-one gets to see it.

 

Again, it is a sign of a responsible creator to tend to all details, even the hidden ones, since these are also an important part of the whole.

 

Congratulations,<div></div>

Yes, I agree with you! If you want to use 100 speed film, you might want to carry around a

tripod.<p>I have to step away from the computer until tomorrow night, good luck with

everything!

Thanks to all for returning this forum to practical matters. I just had to return after reading it for the first time last week. It was liking driving past a car wreck, I just had to look! :)

 

Anyway, I recently purchased a model 110 just to salvage the lens for a simple box camera. I did not want to mount a new back for 4x5 on this one because it would involve cutting the back which is made of steel and not plastic. I have heard that the 110 is not the greatest for one of these conversions anyway because of the location of the rangefinder, but is this really an issue? It seems like the top edge of a carefully constructed adapter should not interfere at all. The light trap lip might have to be a little thin perhaps (I would use individual filmholders and would not need the extra width to mount a Grafmatic holder). Any ideas?

 

And really the answer I am looking for: What is the distance that the film plane needs to be moved back to accomodate a 4x5 film holder? I read somewhere it is approximately one inch, is that true? I am thinking of removing the back off my 110 completely and building up a new back using stock aluminum shapes that I can get at the local home center. It should fit neatly in the lip where the door used to rest. If that doesn't work I can always make it out of maple and paint it.

 

BTW: Excellent work Mr Schwartz. Beautiful in its simplicity.

The finder on the 110 will be blocked by the addition of a Graflok back, as will the rangefinder. Whilst possibly the best looking of the 110 series, it doesn`t machine well. I have found the metal used in the 110 is quite different to the other models and is very brittle. Converting to 6x9 or 6x12 rollfilm is a better option for the lovely 110, even if the body is likely to disintegrate, (unless you are extremely careful).<div></div>

Frank:

 

The adaptation of a 110A is no problem unless you use a Graflok. If you look at my previous posts:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00DQeJ

 

This shows the template for a 110A back with the notch for rangefinder clearance.

 

The light trap around this can be made with a 1/8 in plywood piece which is solid enough.

 

I have not had any problem in cutting the metal from the 110A, yes, it is brittle, but with a new hacksaw blade and some patience, it can be done easily.

 

There are also not too may cuts to do for this back. Consider this as to making a new back alltogether. A few minutes with the hacksaw blade is more convenient than cutting up pieces of metal that may not fit flush with the camera body. Then use a file to smooth everything. Remember that this back has the original "rails" that give perpendicularity to the back w.r.t the lens plane.

 

To me, the rangefinder in the 110A is more practical than the one in the B model, because the one on the A is magnified and it is easier for me to align the little triangle. Just a question of preference, I guess.

 

I guess that there are many ways of achieving this conversion. Please post yours, once done, for everyone's information and options.<div></div>

Hi, Frank R.<p>You don't specify which Polaroid 110 camera you mean, 110, (as Dean

illustrated above), 110A, or 110B. They each have unique rangefinders. <p>What I'm

writing here applies to all of these cameras with a 127 mm lens.<p>Yes, you have to

move the film plane back over an inch.<p>If you move it back less than this, the cut off

will most likely be on the long edges of the new film plane.<p>If you do use the camera

back door, you can pretty much

rest the Graflok back against the back of the camera, and that's the right distance. (I've

explained why that's the right distance earlier in this thread.)<p>If you move the film

plane back more than this, you'll have even more trouble with the front standard strut

cross bar not clearing the moved back infinity stop.<p>And, no matter how far you retard

the film plane, I

HIGHLY recommend notching the front standard strut cross bar so that it clears the infinity

stop when you fold up the camera.<p> The front standard is the weakest part of these

cameras and will go out of parallel to the film plane for a gagillion different reasons, so

you need a solid, positive engagement of the infinity stop with the front standard.<p>And

if you don't calibrate the camera to itself, what's the point ? Doing things accurately while

building the camera will make using the camera much more pleasureable.<p>In the photo

you can see that I mount the real Graflok back about 1/10th of an inch back from the back

door.<div></div>

Diwan, thanks for the above picture and also to all the ones which wrote positive comments for the conversion. I will try to convert my 110B that I owned since '72.

I bought a 110A off ebay and picked it up locally. It was misadvertised and I ended up with a beautiful 110. Really clean, and a nice Kalart rangefinder located on the right side. Felt guilty wanting to just salvage the lens. So I am taking two diffferent routes and experimenting. I have built a focusable box camera using a modified plywood plate from Diwan's other posting. Now I have the lens and the body and I am just waiting for my film holders to arrive (I can easily remove and replace the lens from the 110). This should work out as being about as inexpensive a 4x5 camera as I can get; the only thing I have paid for so far is a lens and four film holders. All the materials I already had on hand.

 

But I can also modify the existing 110 as another option. As Dean pointed out, the Graflok back and the conversion plate are so wide that the top edge blocks the rangefinder hole. Here is my solution: I do not install a Graflock back. I want to use just the film holders like in Diwan's other post (love the hi-tech elastomeric devices securing the film holders Diwan!). With this design I only need a thin lip along the top of the plate to act as a light trap, similar to Diwan's earlier picture in this post but thinner and without the notch. It looks like it would just be tall enough to hold the film holder and not obstruct the rangefinder. I am not concerned so much about the center-mounted viewfinder.

 

I can get 1"x1"x1/16" aluminum angle at the home center. Noah: should I just build a frame like yours and lay it on the film plane inside the back of the 110? That would bring the film plane back 1" plus the thickness of whatever plate I use. It would be great if you could supply a nice dimesional drawing of your adapter; that would probably answer a lot of my questions. BTW Noah: one of your earlier photo postings was un-openable because the file had a Phostoshop extension. I would love to see those photos of your work. Would you post some JPEGs of those shots?

I don't mean to seem secretive, but I'm afraid I don't use drawings to do this. The recipe is in

my head. I never thought about it before, but you made me realize that I don't even have a

SKETCH to go by! <p> But you have all the information you need, and you can make this with

angle stock or maple or anything you can think of.<p>Meanwhile, I've turned the photo you

asked for into a jpeg.<p>It shows some of the steps involved in making the diamond plate

flange in my format expander.<p> If you follow the photos carefully you'll see how I just

machine and hand file everything to fit as I go along.<div></div>

Frank:

 

Please pay attention to Mr. Schwatz's technique for locking the front standard. This is the way that you need to do it for accuracy and ease of operation.

 

I glued mine because I did not have the proper tool to do the notching. His way of doing it is the correct way.

 

I am happy that the plate that you fitted to your 110 ( I thought all the time that it was a 110A, sorry...) did the job for you. As to the "elastomeric devices", there must be a better way to do this. I only use the Grafmatics, that is why my design is attuned to those.

 

Could you please indicate what is your solution for a GG ? I am interested in knowing. The Graflok back comes with it's own GG and a very ingenious way of attaching it to the plate. I do not have the tooling to come up with an analogous device for locking the GG, so I used a Graflex Pack Film holder.

Thanks Noah and Diwan. I guess I need to provide some background information. Please check out this photo from an old thread:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/uploaded-file?bboard_upload_id=15112584

 

To me this is a bare bones camera. The only way it could be simpler is to be fixed focus. I bought the 110 for the lens. I have built a simpler camera body based on that photo and I have temporarily fitted the lens to it. I am just waiting for the film holders to arrive in the mail so I can determine the focus settings and then take some pictures.

 

Meanwhile, I am pondering the possibility of altering the 110s back like Noah showed. But two issues arise: I cannot fit a Graflok or Grafmatic back since they are so wide they would block the Kalart rangefinder which is mounted on the top right side. Also, if I have to buy a Graflok or Grafmatic back just to make this happen then the price quickly is approaching what I would spend on a Crown Graphic.

 

I would like to try using individual film holders like Tim Curry did in the photo above. The film holder is less wide than the Graflok or Grafmatic back and should not obscure the rangefinder. I could build a frame like Noah's using Diwan's sketch (minus the extra width) from aluminum angle and plate for less than $20 worth of materials.

 

The critical dimension seems to be the distance from the old film plane to the new one. I guess it is not that critical Noah, it seems like it can be 1 3/8" plus or minus 1/8" (essentially 1 and 1/4"), right?

 

As for the ground glass: some tips I found for doing it cheap included using tracing paper , another suggested polishing a piece of plastic taken from a CD cover. I cut some plastic and tested the polishing idea; it did not work. A clear piece of plastic with the tracing paper did work but only in bright sunlight. The best results came from just covering the clear plastic with many pieces of frosted scotch tape; simple, even laughably crude, but effective.

 

I am assuming that the back surface of the ground glass should be in exactly the same plane that the sheet film negative would be when it is in the camera (plus or minus 1 millimeter)? I will shim out the ground glass to match this dimension (again waiting on the arrival of the film holders so I can measure the depth).

 

I wish someone would start a website dedicated to inexpensive large format photography. I think enough people could get there start there and then move on to better equipment once they get hooked. What does everyone think of the idea?

Frank:

 

Great ! I see that all of this got you thinking. My recommendation for a GG is to get a piece of glass and frost it yourself with a fine sharpening stone. Trust me, it works very well. If you use the CD case and the Scotch tape, this plane may not be flat and it will give you a headache focusing.

 

As to the distance of the film plane for the "new" camera, look at Mr. Schwartz's photo above in the thread. He gave the number 1/10in from the rails on the door of the 110 camera. The correct distance from the node of the lens to the film plane is 127mm for this lens. The problem becomes to find where the optical node of the lens is. From the surface of the rear lens element to the film plane it is less than that, so, plan to have adjustment built-in in your design to accommodate for this fact.

 

Regarding the regular film holders, well, for me rubber bands work well and the light trap can be as thin as you can make it, as long as you make the "incoming" unwanted light go through a right angle, all will be fine.

 

This is your creation, enjoy these moments since they are the most rewarding. After that, all becomes somewhat trivial since the feeling of discovery is past.

 

Just take your time doing what you do, you will see that you are capable of coming up with clever and innovative solutions for this application.

 

Best,

Yes Diwan, this has been a lot of fun.

 

Okay everyone: Instead of messing with the front standards and changing the infinity stops, couldn't the adaptor just be temporarily fitted to the camera and then moved back until infinity came into focus? I am assuming that the lens would be set on infinity while doing this. Once this is located the adapter could be mounted in that position. The only other change would be having to recalibrate the closest focal distance and re-draw a new scale. Is this possible or am I misunderstanding something? I am not quite grasping why you are messing with the front standards if you are moving the film plane back with the adapter.

Frank:

 

Not too complicated. Once you install the adapter plate to obtain the 4x5 format, the film plane has been "retarded" from its original position by X.Yinches. As the camera's front standard was set for the lens to attain infinity focus from factory, this needs to be corrected for the X.Yin retardation that you have effected.

 

That is the reason for this front standard mouvement backwards. So, in this way, the focal lenght at infinity is satisfied.

 

This may seem strange, but try it first. Once the adapter installed, look at the GG while aiming at a very distant object. The image will be blurry, now, move the front standard backwards, and it will become slowly in focus.

 

You can try this with your box camera, play with it until you get infinity focus and this will show you how it is done and the reasons why.

 

One question, how did you make the light trap for your box camera when you have, two sides of the box that slide one into the other to obtain focus? I was thinking of that, and it seemed easier to me to mount the bellows on a rail or something like that...

Diwan:

 

I will post a picture tomorrow of my camera to show how I made it. It will be easier than explaining.

 

As for retarding the plane. Your explanation is correct but it did not answer my question. Why can't you just adjust the infinity focus location by temporarily moving the adapter back (using the ground glass for focusing) and then fixing it at that spot? Kind of like telescoping the ground glass back and forth.

 

If you do it this way then you would not have to mess with the front standards at all. The biggest difference is you might have to mount the adapter a little bit closer or farther away than before.

I think the problem here is that the inside of the camera will cast a shadow on a 4x5 piece of film. If you move the lens and the film back, you clear the obstruction of the camera body. Obviously, if you move the film back, you have to move the lens back by the same amount.

 

You could just mount the new back at the same distance as the original but I think you would not get a 4x5 image. Actually it also might not be physically possible. I don't have one, some I'm not sure, but maybe this will clarify your question for someone else to answer.

The other alternative is to fit a 150mm, this almost leaves the lensboard in the original spot. Using Fuji f6.3 lens elements in place of the 127mm Rodenstock will still allow closing of the front door without removal of the front element. Only a little machining is required to accomplish this, but by doing so, the rangefinder will need some attention to maintain accuracy.