anthony_brookes5 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I've used the Photocolor kits for some time but do these produce the best results ? Any comments would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_shriver Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Best is Kodak and Fuji-Hunt. Lots of trade secrets that they share with each other and nobody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 C-41B, which has a wash step between the color dev & bleach. I also use a short (2:00) wash between bleach & fix, since I run replenished chemistry and want to protect the fixer from bleach contamination when I use it for B&W developing. I run Kodak chemistry, which I pick up at B&H or (now) Calumet, since Fuji Hunt has a $500 minimum for free shipping. If you buy Kodak Flexicolor color developer in 5 gallon size, it's only $5.39/gallon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_beckmann Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 You know I think this trade secrets thing is overrated. I don't think there is much or anything that is unknown about the C-41 chemicals at this point in time. Jobo kits are made by Fuji Hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_beckmann Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Dan, you consider a two minute wash between processing steps a short wash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Michael, I thought Jobo chemistry came from Tetenal. Also, there's an issue with the C-41 stabilizer/final rinse: Personally, I use a 2% formaldehyde solution in a bucket for my E-6 & C-41... Cheers! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_beckmann Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Dan, I know from Fuji Hunt that they make the Jobo kits. And Jobo sells some Fuji chemicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 ...so, what's the best source in the US for Jobo kits? I've just shot myself in the foot by refusing my own best advice: I gave Wallyworld some XP2. Scratches on two rolls, total destruction of a third. I was lucky twice before, third time they got me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_beckmann Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 John, I have no idea, I live in Europe. If you have a source for Tetenal, you could use that, it's pretty decent also. Just avoid the 2-bath kits, no matter from who you buy, use the 3-bath process if available. That eliminates a source of error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Hazmat shipping is the killer, so if you can pick up the chemistry, you'll save a lot. I generally pick up what I need at B&H on my trips to Manhattan; but Calumet also stocks chemistry -- Mostly Kodak, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I just checked Calumet's prices for C-41 chemistry: They only have the Jobo 1 liter "Press Kit" and only Kodak C-41 components... And about 1/3rd higher than Adorama & B&H. Scratch Calumet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowland_mowrey Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Dan; From limited sources, Calumet ships more places at a lower cost than the others when it comes to chemistry. At least, this was last I checked. B&H for example, a fine company, will not ship some chemistry to some locatons. I suggest that you find out what restrictions apply. In addition, I am not aware of Fuji-Hunt making C41 chemistry for other companies. I do know that the latest E6 and C41 use proprietary chemicals for image stabilization, and unless this is licensed from Kodak and/or Fuji, the film will not have proper dye stabilization. Some second or third source kits don't fully bleach and fix the silver out of color films. This further complicates the entire situation. Many of them do not duplicate the exact image structure and curve shape of Kodak and Fuji kits, but it would take analytical measurements to determine where the processes vary and how bad it is. There was a complete review in the old Darkroom Techniques several years back, but this data is probably obsolete as the various suppliers updated their chemistry. Of course, Kodak and Fuji have changed their processes in the mean-time as well. All of this is a series of moving targets. Ron Mowrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_beckmann Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Ron, the information that the Jobo kits are made by Fuji Hunt comes from Fuji Hunt. This is authoritative. It was also confirmed to me by Jobo. You say that films are only properly stabilized with the most recent stabilizer by Fuji and Kodak. I wonder how films were stabilized in the past, before the latest stabilizers. They must be all improperly stabilized by this logic. Also, you stated several times in the past, that Kodak has not changed the C-41 developer for decades. So I don't think anyone would be shooting themselves in the foot if they used C-41 from a reliable source, like for example Tetenal. There are professional labs that use Tetenal all the time. Problems with blix are a different issue. I see no point in using a two bath process anyway, and would recommend against it, no matter who supplied the chemicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowland_mowrey Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Michael; The original C41 and E6 kits used formalin to stabilze the dyes. This is not environmentally sound, and so both Kodak and Fuji began a search for better, less toxic stabilzers. To do this, they had to change couplers as well as stabilzers, and they note on their web pages that the newer films should not be stabilzed with older kits and vice versa for optimum imaging. They cross license patents AFAIK to insure that there are no probelms. I have both stabilzers (old and new EK C41 and E6) here at this time. In addition, with E6, the pre-bleach bath contains part of the E6 dye stabilzer from what I have been told. So...... You make up your own mind. In addition, the C41 and E6 developers are proprietary to both Fuji and Kodak. They contain ingredients that are not used by other mfgrs to my knowledge. These ingredients control image structure or sharpness, grain and color contamination that some other formulations might not. IDK. When I last saw results, some kits were not even in the same ball park as Fuji or Kodak. I have answered this one question just this way probably more than most people have posted messages here on PN. I really don't want to control what you use, and I have been careful to stress that to my knowledge Fuji-Hunt and EK kits in both areas (C41 and E6) are interchangeable, but that is not so of kits that don't contain the proprietary ingredients. This is also true of blixes and bleach then fix processes. They all don't yield good results. Some allow silver to be retained in one form or another. This leads to either darker colors, changes in colors with keeping, or gradual 'print out' or increases in dmin with keeping and exposure to light. Make of it what you will. Ron Mowrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony_brookes5 Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 I'm afraid you can't buy Calumnet or Fuji Hunt in the UK except professionally in large quantities. I only want to do develop a couple of films at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_beckmann Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 You could order Kodak, Agfa and Tetenal through Silverprint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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