jg_feng Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Iメve been keen on b&w photography and taught Large-format Photography courses for years, as an assistant professor in Beijing Film Academy. In July 2004, I bought from Ron Wisner a 16X20 view camera and ten film holders, the dealing operation entrusted to a friend in Detroit. I heard that it was the first camera ever sold to the Chinese. When it reached HongKong several months later, however, there was only the camera, no film holders. I asked the friend in Detroit to call Ron Wisner immediately for confirming if any omission occurred when sending out. My friend told me that Ron Wisner had promised to check. Yet during the following months, even though my friend had called and left messages to his phone many times, and sent emails as well, Ron Wisner gave no reply ever since. The last email I sent to him was at the end of last year, but still got no reply. TWO YEARS till now and I still have not received the ten film holders. Lately I heard of similar stories from some friends from Taiwan and Korea. They ordered cameras from Wisner too. Yet after payment, no cameras had ever been sent to them. Theyメd contacted Ron Wisner many times but still, similarly , got no reply. Itメs not accidental then. And Iメm quite shocked to learn that Ron Wisner, with some reputation for camera selling already, would run business in such a cheating way. I think I have the responsibility to remind those who might get into the idea of buying cameras with Wisner: DON'T become the next victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_stafford2 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 The stories regarding incomplete orders are well known in every major photographic web site. His web page has been updated as of just a few weeks ago: http://www.wisner.com/ Rather than working through your friend, perhaps writing to sales@wisner.com would be a good idea. For a hefty fee, you can hire a solicitor in his region to take action. In cases such as yours, we net folk have no idea whether your story is true, or whether there are complications that we cannot be aware of, for example your friend's compliance, and so-forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Last time a story like this was put up, Ron corrected the situation pronto. Maybe you will be lucky. That story was as pathetic as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric rose Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 IMHO all Wisner bashing threads should be deleted. It's an old saw. The man is basically out of business. Dead and buried. No point in kicking a dead corpse. If you have problems either suck it up and move on or get a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_black1 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Eric<P> His website seems to suggest he (or at least the business) is alive and kicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_briggs2 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Wisner's website hasn't changed in some time. It appears that the company is not operating any more -- see http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00GyxB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_briggs2 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Well, I have to take that back -- the website was updated 7/1/06, after not changing for more than a year, and implying for many months they were just waiting for the shop move to finish in a few weeks. So, JG, you could try re-contacting the company. It might be under new management. Me, if I wanted a Wisner camera, I'd only buy through a dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio_ortega7 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 What a shame and a tragedy that someone so active and well-respected in the large format community for so long has allowed his business reputation to suffer so badly. And the price of ten Wisner 16x20 film holders is probably well into the thousands of dollars. After two years (and likely much sooner) I'd be contacting an attorney. I feel badly for you. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_black1 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 The site lists the current price of a 16x20 filmholder as $565. I'd be kind of sore if I had lost out on that kind of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanphysics Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 It's worse than that -- the camera isn't much use without them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w_t1 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I would have flown from Hong Kong to the dealer or Wisner to pick it up myself, if spending that kind of money, after telephone confirmation, of course. If you can afford a 16x20 and ten film holders, the price of airfare is small price for insurance. I don't buy stuff directly from a guy in Hong Kong, I buy through dealers here. That's just me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_ellis16 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 "What a shame and a tragedy that someone so active and well-respected in the large format community for so long has allowed his business reputation to suffer so badly. " Active yes. Well respected? Maybe for his equipment but certainly not for his financial shenanigans. While it's too bad to see any LF equipment disappear from the market, overall I think the LF community is better off without someone who had so little regard for his obligations to people who paid money to him and expected to get the equipment they ordered within the time he stated. Stories like this one have been far too frequent over the years. Those of us who knew of his reputation for shady dealings avoided him, the people who got taken were unfortunates like J G who didn't know better. And I don't think threads like this one should be deleted, if he gets back in business then I think the more people who know about him the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emile_de_leon9 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Ron Wisner is very hard to get ahold of at this time. Why this exactly is so is a mystery except that his company has relocated (still in same town in Marion Ma.)and has been in the process of setting up again for at least a year now. If I were you I would keep trying by phone/e-mail/certified letter to get ahold of him. If you need to use the camera now the best thing to do would be to send the back of the camera to Richard Ritter in VT. USA and have it custom fitted to either S&S or AWB filmholders made here in the US. Then get your filmholder money back from Ron Wisner. Good Luck. Emile/www.deleon-ulf.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capocheny Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 JG, Sorry to hear about your woes. If I were in your shoes... I'd spend a few bucks, hire a lawyer, and go after Ron for either a full refund and interest, or the holders. It's incredible that there are so many people allowed to get away with this crap! I've just had a situation with another individual and, after having our corporate attorneys take a look at the situation... the job got done! It's time the LF community take these people/companies to task and not accept these kinds of activities! I'm just amazed that a lawsuit hasn't been filed... (or, perhaps, there has been!) As for an alternative supplier of holders, try: http://www.filmholders.com/ I think they're awfully busy though so you may have to wait for production and delivery of holders in your size... unless he has some in stock. We'll keep our fingers crossed for you. Good luck. :) Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrepsom1 Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Hello JG Feng, just take a look at Mr. Wisner's website, there is a personal message for you on the homepage. http://www.wisner.com/ Your problem might well be solved quite soon. Best regards Aender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_wisner Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Mr. Feng can simply email us directly and he will get a refund immediatlely. You all know that we have had cases like this before, and they have been teken care of quickly. This case was difficult because it involved not one but two third parties. The order was placed from Detroit, but when we were ready to ship, I was given yet another address in California, where, (I gather) it was containerized for shipment to China. It was not until many, many months after the camera and holders were shipped that we were informed that the holders were missing. It took several months more to file a claim sucessfully with UPS. In the mean time, we had moved. Communication was been difficult in this case, to be sure. We never were given Mr. Fengs direct contact information, a real red flag in international shipments, especially involving credit card payments. For the record, there are no missing, unshipped cameras in either Taiwan or Korea. The Korean cameras, a 20x24 and a 16x20 were both shipped, and both the subject of some discussion here on this forum. Also for the record, Mr. Feng received a very deep discount for the camera and holers. I only regret Mr. Fengs trouble in this matter. The posting on our website was due to the fact that I had trouble with my password last night on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van_camper Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 "Last time a story like this was put up, Ron corrected the situation pronto. Maybe you will be lucky. That story was as pathetic as yours." Ronald Moravec Ronald, it is you that is pathetic. This person has waited 2 years (long enough), making the camera unusable and also depreciated in value. I bet you would be far more quick to complain if it happened to you! He is simply passing on a warning to the rest of us which I appreciate (which many others also have over the years). Wisner is turning into a legend regarding bad service. Isn't word of mouth advertising great? Something Wisner can't appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio_ortega7 Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 It's amazing what threads like this can accomplish, JG. Hope it all ends up well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafael_macia Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 JG, Please keep this thread aware of what happens. Rafael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_morgan1 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Van Camper, I think you misunderstood Ronald. He's saying that Ron Wisner's business practices are pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg_feng Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 Today, at last, I receive the second half of the refund from Mr. Wisner. Never have I thought that it would be solved finally. Thanks very much for all the consideration and kind suggestions above. Much obliged to photo.net. What a great forum:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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