i want to buy a littman camera

having sifted through previous posts on the subject, i really hesitated whether

to post this question. but i will do it anyway.

 

money notwithstanding (i really think that prices are ok, if this thing works),

do you people at photonet -knowledgeable owners please- think it is worth

buying? i'm a leica user, but i love the detail of a 4x5 neg. i'm also a field

4x5 camera user, but i love the speed allowed by a rangefinder. the littman

would combine both. and for the kind of work i intend to do with it -candid

portraiture without any help from assistants-, in theory it would be the perfect

camera to buy.

 

specifically: i have seen some concerns expressed over the flash synchro, and

also over the depth of field. i would really like to hear if any owner has had

any problems with these. the flash synchro, and the hot shoe would be really

important features.

 

[my initial hesitations (about posting this question) were due to the tiring

debates i have come across between william littman himself and some of his

detractors, on every single post where a littman camera has been discussed. i am

interested in littman's cameras and i'm interested in the opinion of real

owners. and i am not interested in littman's comments (who will obviously defend

his product), or the comments of people who just love to poke fun at littman.

these two latter categories of photonet users (littman himself, and littman

haters) please refrain.]

Hi Jean

Being a new Littman owner and user I can tell you that it was a wild ride getting to the

decision to buy one. I also read the barrage of responses to the camera and i also did

some ground work like renting the camera and trying it out for a couple of days. I will say

this muchif 4x5 is what you are trying to move towards, it is a camera worth getting.

I am also a leica, hassy, and rollei user. I like all my cameras but I have also learnt that

only you can decide on what camera to get and what lens to get with it. It is your vision

and your eye. I have found that some of these guys that open their mouths about Littman

are haters, old farts who have not shot a good picture since WW1.

There are others who can guide you through positive criticism as to what you should

expect when you ask William to build you one of his cameras. I did and now William has

modified some of his newer cameras to appease those people who would like a stronger

more robust camera.

I have not had a lot of experience with the flash synchro on the camera, but the depth of

field is very good.

 

I hope I helped. And to tell you the truth, email William, he is a cool cat to chat with when

you get pass his defenses:-)

 

Radcliffe

www.royephotography.com<div></div>

thanks, radcliffe. and i LOVED the single mom picture! but switching to technical mode: that's exactly the kind of sharpness and definition i'm after. was this a 150mm lens camera?

Much energy seems to be outgassed by young farters who want to spend alot of energy passing gas; talking about copyright, patents, instead of actually shooting 4x5 film.<BR><BR>To some of us who modified Polaroids eons ago the L camera seems expensive.; It may no to you. <BR><BR>One could if thrifty buy two Speed graphics, an Omega D, Componon and 1000 bucks worth of film and lenses for what an L camera costs new.<BR><BR>The L cheerleaders like to down play folks who came from modest means, experimented with modifiying Polaroids decades ago. Threads about 1/2 century old Polaroid's being used for 4x5 seem to bring out the "experimenter haters" sometimes. This is god damn insulting to folks who kludged up old Polaroids using ideas from magazines, and used WW2 surplus tri-x for film. Maybe folks who inherited a trust fund love to attack any prior Polaroid modification. <BR><BR> Its hard to understand the hatred folks have with attacking experimentation, or past "can do" build your own tools. The entire world wasnt born with a silver spoon in ones mouth, a trust fund, or daddy buying one a camera that costs several grand. <BR><BR>Much of Photographic tools long ago was made from surplus parts, hard work, craftsmanship, junk or war surplus gear. Its NOT that the new kid on the blocks several thousand dollar L camera is hated; its the anti experimenter, anti old Yankee "lets build it ourself" dogma, the all CAPS BS threats, the young fart "I was first" BS. Its like saying AL Gore invented the internet, insulting and BS.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The pickle to you is whether the L camera is worth the money for its performance, not others quest to quash past history.. There are other cameras like this too that cost less. If it gets mentioned, L popps up and the thread morphs into more mud slinging.<BR><BR>Using 4x5 is today slower than long ago when we had film pack, asa 1200 films, new Grafmatics, BIG 50B flashbulbs, focus spot. Ortho was fun do develop by inspection. Experimention was encouraged. $x5 ws once mostly a fast press and sports camera, not as much for static stuff.<BR><BR> If anything some young folks today are the "old fart" ones since they have rigid mindsets, are afraid to experiment, they worry about spots and fungus on lenses. <BR><BR>Folks are not going to be creative with all this negative energy spent on blasting old Yankee experimentation.<BR><BR>Real questions should be like hows does an L camera's fronts lens boards positional consistancy compare to a speed graphic, of a lame folder with the usual lens abit tilted. Real world things liek this seem not to get mentioned in the slinging process. Many LF cameras only have a +/- 0.007 tolerance in GG to film, this can be WAY less that the error in a WW2 620 medalist a 6x9cm camera.<BR><BR>You should find a way to rent or handle the L camera, if you think it meets your goals. Then there will be no surprises if you buy one. Mr L should show is camera more/some at trade shows and let the public see his wares.

any other owners of the littman camera out there to address my very specific questions? and, if possible, to avoid meaningless confrontations with non-owners?

Hi Jean

Yes that was a 150mm Rodenstock lens. I actually ordered the same lens for the Littman.

And truthfully, if you want an L camera, let it be because it is going to make you and your

work better and not because some young gasser like myself talked you into it.

It Littman was making that camera for 10K it is still up to the buyer to chuck down their

hard earn money and buy it. William is not going to rob you on the street or over the

internet for you to use his camera. I really don't get it. How can you tell a man what he is

worth--or the product he builds with his fingers. I can see if he had it coming off the

assembly line then we could talk.

So Jean, what ever you decide be happy

Depth of field is a function of film size, focal length and aperture. Ther is no difference in that respect between Littmann's and anyone else's cameras.

 

On th other hand I find the price for Littmanns cameras a little stiff. Especially compared to the Speed Graphic I bought last month for $56, with rangefinder and a working film plane shutter...

I write from Italy and I do not speak a very good english.

 

A friend of mine showed me his Littman and I really loved it, love at first sight.

 

So, after spending months asking around on the web about these cameras I finally decided

to purchase a Littman camera one year ago, and I like it very much.

 

It is light, really easy to carry.

And easy to work with (the view/rangefinder is a lot brighter than the original Polaroid)

I have a couple of Grafmatics, and they are perfect for this camera.

My camera fits the improved version of the 127 Rodenstock Ysarex lens.

It is a sharp lens, even sharper with the Littman improvement.

 

I suggest you to ask about a camera with a new Copal shutter (so flash synchro, smooth

shutter...), even in the case you choose a 127 Ysarex.

 

I tested it taking pictures of landscapes, and I was really impressed by the quality.

Now I use it for my usual weird still lives.

 

Ciao

Carlo

Kelly, mega-dittos. I call the silver spoon people the "E" generation, E = entitlelment.

I believe the original quesion wasn't "how much money do you make" or "were you a trust fund baby" or "what's wrong with this generation" it was "do you like the camera."

 

I have one and I like it a lot. I don't use the flash sync so I can't comment on that. The depth of field as has been mentioned seems just the same as my Linhof.

 

I have the 150 lens and use grafmatic backs. Very cool camera, does what it is advertised to do, and works like a charm.

 

Michael

Thanks Michael for that answer.

I think that your words embody the idea of what I was trying to get at. I am from Jamaica,

from a working class family there too. I came here and through various jobs, some of

them lucky charms, found a way to work, pay my bills and afford a little of the equipment

that I either use regularly on a job or am just infatuated with. Leicas for one--maan, I did

a cart wheel when I found them but after a while it becomes less about the money and

more about what works for you. I bought a rollei wide a year and a half ago, spent $4500

and wish I had instead bought the Littman instead of now buying another $5K camera in

less than two years. But the thing is, I sold almost all my leicas to be able to afford the

Littman so I did not break open my Rockerfeller Trust Fund :-) As photogs, we do what we

have to do to take pictures or afford the toys we want. Let me repeat, to take pictures; not

sit on a computer and criticize other photogs when they are only trying to do what you are

not doing.

So Michael, again I thank you for your words. It could not have been said more directly

and eloquently.:-)

Hi Jean,

 

I've been an owner of the Littman for over 5 years. I've owned 2 of them. One of which flew

off my scooter and never to be seen again. I was so distraught that I had to get another.

The main reason I got it is because of it's portability. I carry it everywhere along with a

pack of 4x5 polaroid film and easily fits in a small discrete, non photo looking, shoulder

bag. No other 4x5 camera, including a Graflex offer that kind of portability, easy of use,

and speed that the L camera offers. That is the price you pay for that uniqueness. I didn't

care for sharpness as I mainly just shoot 4x5 polaroids, so I opted for the 127mm Ysarex

lens. I don't use strobe either. The other great thing about it are the frame lines are damn

acurate. I own a plethora of other cameras, including all the manual Polaroids, Konica

Instapress, Rolleis, Panoramics.... but non give me more joy to use than the Littman... I

love it.

 

Good luck!

Sebastian Kim

thanx to all littman owners for your contributions so far and for your encouragement (it's a serious plunge, deciding to spend in the vicinity of four grand). is there anyone who has actually used the camera with strobes?

I am the owner of 4x5 Polaroid conversions -- one I took to Rome and Venice recently, the other is undergoing conversion at the moment with a 150mm lens instead of the Ysarex lens.

 

Armed with a couple of Grafmatics and a lightmeter, you're set to go with "snapshot" 4x5 quality.

 

Frankly, these are great for handheld 4x5 but there's just no way that the price for the L is justified IMHO. People have been building these for generations and you can find more than a few people doing the conversions today.

Another person who has modified the Polaroid 110 cameras for use with 4x5 film is a guy who goes by the name "razzeldog". Check out one of his cameras for sale on Ebay right now, the auction number is 290015854304. He also has a webpage at...

 

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~razzle/index.html

Re: Sheldon's post

 

Dean is also a "Cool Cat" :)

Hi Jean,

I've owned a Littman for over a year now. I was photographing with a 4X5 view camera on

a tripod for a long time and really wanted a more fluid approach without sacrificing any

quality. Coming from a Leica background, I tried medium format rangefinders with some

success but what I was really looking for was a handholdable solution to complement the

quality I get with my tripod-mounted Arca Swiss and modern lenses. I was NOT looking

for an old press camera or some converted old Polaroid to play around with. I make very

large C-prints and I wanted to show my handheld and tripod-shot work together and

maintain a consistency in color, sharpness and clarity. A Linhof Technika might have been

a solution but I never enjoyed using one handheld.

 

Even though the Littman 45 Single uses an old Polaroid 110b as a foundation, William

does do some work to the viewing/focusing system to make it as accurate as possible.

That is the main reason I chose this camera. The framelines are right on. I often shoot

wide open at f5.6 and my plane of focus is exactly where I want it.

 

My camera has a 135 ApoSironar lens in a Copal shutter. I opted for this lens because I

wanted a modern Rodenstock and a reliable shutter. I'm sure the original lens in the

Prontor shutter is fine but I use flash a lot and so I wanted to forgo any possible sync

issues with the old shutter. I believe William offers a Copal shutter option with any of the

older lenses so if flash sync is important to you I recommend going that way.

 

I use either a Vivitar 283 or a Norman head, diffused, mounted on a FlashFrame FF301

flash bracket. This setup suits me when I need to work as light and as conveniently as

possible (for example on-the-street). Otherwise I'll set up a couple of strobes and

umbrellas on stands when I can manage that. Synchronization is either via Paramount

sync cord or Microsync.

 

Depth-of-field is always an issue with large format photography, regardless of what

camera you use. You need to know how to deal with it. Often, shallow depth-of-field

works for my photographs and the Littman's accurate focusing allows me to control what

little depth-of-field my lens provides wide open. If I need most everything in focus I shoot

at F16 or more and I better have enough light to deal with that. If it's not available then

bring it with you.

 

There is only one color film available above ISO160 and that is Kodak Portra 400NC.

Fortunately it is excellent and scans beautifully. I just wish we had more choices in 4X5

color sheet film (4X5 Fuji NPZ would be a dream to use).

 

Yeah, it's an expensive camera. Believe me if I could've acquired this kind of tool for less

money, I would have. It took me almost two years to save up for this purchase.

Regardless of all the arguments regarding intellectual property,

cheap modifications, pricing, scamming, insulting, etcetera, the other modified Polaroids

simply do not perform at this level. I've tried some and without a doubt they are fun to

use and can make decent small prints, but they are clunky performers and unlike the

Littman they simply cannot rival the quality of a good 4X5 view camera. As usual, you get

what you pay for, and the cheaper cameras are OK but some of them claim to rival the

Littman and that simply is not true.

 

If you do not need this kind of quality then save your money. The Littman 45 Single is not

for everyone. It is a very idiosyncratic photographic tool. But if what I have written above

is what you are looking for then the Littman is the only game in town and is definitely

worth the price.

Very nice shot Ruddy.

carlos: thanks for taking the time. this was the kind of useful comment i was looking for when i started this thread. thanks again. your pic reminds me of martin parr (his new brighton series). cheers!

Jean,

You really should try and rent or borrow one before you buy. It won't be as fast to use as a Leica, even with a grafmatic, so you will lose some of the fluidity that a 35mm RF offers. i.e. you can't just leave it up at eye level and keep shooting.

 

The combined RF/VF will be easier to use than a Technika or a Super Graphic, but you lose the ability to change lenses. If you regularly swap lenses on your Leica you may want to think hard about that.

 

Some of the lens options require you to remove the front element to close the camera.

 

You'll need the portrait version to focus down to 4 feet, otherwise it is 6 feet minimum (The Speed Graphic RF is accurate to 4 feet). Remember, these are slightly wide to normal lenses so you may run into trouble with tight headshots.

 

For shooting portraits on the street the combination of the RF/VF and light weight would make it the preferred tool. If you were just shooting streetscapes then something like a Fotoman 45 would be a better bet. If you were shooting at one location then a Technika or even a Graflex SLR would do a better job. The Littman 45 is a one trick pony, but if that is the trick you want then go get it.

Thank you, Jean. Very kind of you.

Paul's comments are appropriate but as you can see all the cameras that he mentions have

their strengths and weaknesses. You have to choose the appropriate tool for the kind of

photography you want to do. The Littman is a one-lens camera so you have to choose

that optic when you order the camera. Most people wisely choose the original Ysarex lens.

Not only is it more convenient to use because you do not have to remove the front

element to close the camera, but after seeing some work done with it, the lens quality

looks pretty fantastic. I do not regret my lens choice at all but I'm probably sacrificing a

lot of convenience for a little better performance. It's worth it to me but it's just a

personal choice, and certainly not necessary to achieve great results. The most important

thing to me is that using my handheld camera is as accurate as using my view camera.

You may be able to acheive that with some of Paul's suggestions but the Littman handles a

lot better than the others (except the Leica, of course, but it's no 4X5!). Good luck with

your decision.

considering the cost of film, and the fact that is getting more and more difficult to take an

airplane with a box of sheet film... and considering also the problem with dust in holders,

if i was looking for the best hand held camera possible, i will definetly go for the alpa !

have a look at their web site... www.alpa.ch

on the top of it, it will be an excellent camera to attach a digital back later on !

'Regardless of all the arguments regarding intellectual property, cheap modifications, pricing, scamming, insulting, etcetera, the other modified Polaroids simply do not perform at this level'

 

Fortunately Carlos, some perform at a similar level only for a more realistic price. The camera remains a mere Polaroid after all is said and done. To state that the alternatives 'simply do not perform at this level' is misleading.<div></div>

ok, here we go again... dean: very funny, but i've already read all of your boring debates with littman on about a thousand threads.

 

thanks EVERYBODY for the input. carlos: excellent! any other littman shooters have examples to show? ruddy: another pic, please. or two. or three. come on. i have visited your site but mostly i came across rollei portraits. or so i thought.

DG: well, but i love sheet film. alpa looks good, and i have a book by magnum photographer raymond depardon ("errance") where you can see its incredible quality. but it's not what i'm after. perhaps when i am filthy rich and decide to change my mamiya 7...

I don't know why my orginal post was deleted. I have recently tested a few (5)handheld 4x5 format cameras for field work. Among them is the Littman that I do own. I did this for an upcoming article for a photo magazine. As to portability it is a breeze to use. It is compact, and light enough to place in a tamerac fanny pack and still have room for a couple of grafmatic backs. I also use single load sheet film holders with it. I've taken all the cameras tested into some rough country doing such things as repelling down 75 foot cliffs. Some preformed better than others, and some not as well as hoped for. The Littman held up beautifully. I too have the 150mm lens, and Find that it is a great combination. The depth of field has been great with the Littman. Of course there are ways to enhance that no matter the camera. The flash I have not personally used, but a friend of mine who did have a flash that would attach, used his, and was well pleased with it. It's built rock solid, with care given to the proper engineering of an after market camera. Where more solid parts are needed to replace lenses to a higher quality lens, they are manufacturered and out of solid materils not flimsy cheaper materials. Littman stands behind his products and cares enough to periodically contact you to trouble shoot before anything might arise. That is rare in today's world.