Outlook of Medium Format

There are some discussion out there saying that the future of Medium

Format is not looking good and some manufacturers are exiting the

market. I like my 500c/w with 50mm, 80mm and 150mm for personal use

on landscape and nature type macro photography. I am still on films

and planning to use digital back as well when I get the money. Any

thoughts on the future of Medium Format? I am wondering if I should

keep on loading up my MF equipment or I should focus more on Large

Format instead. Thanks!

This has been well covered already. Just shoot what you want and let the future unfold as it will. No one can tell the future despite that fact that there is no shortage of people wearing digital sandwich boards extoling the death of film. So far there have only been signs of the market adjusting to a new level of demand as with any product. As long as there is a demand someone will be there to fill it - leave the future to the Nostradamus-clones and use what ever you want.

 

- Randy

Amen, Randy.

I'm sorry but the future of large format is not very clear either

Even if Kodak or Fuji do not make it there will be other companies making 120 film for years and years to come.

Either is reasonably priced here, so, if you use it, go for it.

I think the industry's answer to declining sales is in part in Kodak's recently announced (May 1st, 17%) price hike for film. We are seeing fewer new film camera models, etc... But we are not seeing no new film cameras or a dwindling supply of film, it's still business as usual. As already mentioned abovethe photographic industry is just adjusting the supply to meet demand. The cost adjustments to supplies will probably continue for a long while before anyone gets ready to throw the towel in, even though some rarified products my hit the dust in the mean time.

Oh, just wait until the MF camera industry finds a way to get into teen market.

 

Seriously, MF will be here for at least couple more years and it is tremendous fun. If it disappear one day, there'll be other toys to play with.

I really think we should all pray that the future of film isn't tied to the future of film camera manufacture. Just when and what was the most recent new film camera on the market (not counting the latest commemorative from Leica)? How about for medium format? Just because a camera hasn't been officially declared discontinued doesn't mean the manufacturer hasn't got a warehouse full of them and already junked the tooling.

 

Despite some people's contention that almost nobody is still shooting film, at least not in a significant quantity, there must be a reasonable demand for it otherwise every manufacturer would've ceased production. How low the demand can get and how high the prices can get before there isn't any way for anyone to make a profit on film is one for the bean-counters, I sure wouldn't venture a guess about that. The bigger problem that I'm seeing is the dwindling processing facilities. The mini-labs are closing down their film lines faster than you can blink. Black&white is a no-brainer for home processing but colour is a different story.

 

But the biggest issue for me and why I dumped my medium format (except for one TLR) is that unless I wanted to wet print (I don't, no time)I would have to get a fairly expensive film scanner to get more out of medium-format than 35mm. If the Epson 750 turns out to rival a Nikon LS9000, maybe I'd dip back into MF.

>Even if Kodak or Fuji do not make it there will be other companies making 120 film for years and years to come.

 

Yes, I agree that there will be films for years to come; however, if the major players exit the market, there'll not be volume production to keep the costs down. So, certainly, there will be films but can you afford it in 10 years?

 

Currently, 120 chromes are around US$3-5 each + $5-$10 (development). If the price per roll goes up to $12-20 + $20-$40 (development), wouldn't shooting 120 be done sparingly?

Fuji has announced a new 400 speed transparency film (Provia 400X) that will replace 400F, and will be available in 35mm and 120 size this summer.It has finer grain and other improvements over 400F. I am anxious to try it with my Hassy as I like to handhold and 400 speed film helps a lot. So all is not lost for us film lovers. I use a Nikon 8000 scanner for 120 film (with the glass carrier) and it is superb. The latest model, Nikon 9000, is much less expensive than the 8000 was.

I think 120 film will be around for a long time. The problem I see is finding colour labs to develop it.

 

120-capable 1hr shops (C41) are slowly disappearing here in outer Sydney. OTOH the "pro" labs are all located on the eastern sea-board, over 50kms away (maybe they need beach sand to scrub their tanks?). And they take forever too - with express mail, a three day turn around.

 

I can definitely see a time when I'll have to go back to shooting B&W for my private (film) work, just so I can develop the things the same week they were shot :?(

Companies like Kodak who have interests both in the camera business and film manufacturing are definitely trying to push the market to the digital side, as the profits on the film side are getting thinner. That is why they are pushing up film prices, hoping that Fuji will follow. And why shouldn't they. We are all puppets in the hands of the companies, they are pushing us to digital, because they want us to buy new cameras instead of using the great reliable workhorses we already have. They can't make enough profit if we stick to film, get it?

Choose films from companies who are mainly manufacturing film, that is my advice. That will help to keep film alive.

"In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes" - Benjamin Franklin.

 

Mamiya have launched an 'MF' digital camera but at eleven thousand pounds stirling I won't be rushing out to buy one. My Mamiya C3 still delivers perfectly good results at a tiny fraction of that price.

My answer to the initial question is this prediction. Yes, I think that eventually you will not be able to buy a MF camera from the current makers. On the other hand, I think film will be around for decades to come. That's right, decades! Film is relatively cheap to make and there will be a market for it until digital eos rebels cost $100 bucks new. People often don't think about the emerging markets in third world countries where purchasing a digital camera is not even an option, but purchasing a film camera and film is easily done. Because of the need for a cheaper alternative, film will survive. That's my prediction. If I'm wrong I will probably not find out in my lifetime.

Well,

Mamiya introduced the RZ-IID in 2005 and the 645 AFD II in 2006, Hasselblad the H2 in

2006. Granted the improvements are to make digital backs work seamlessly, but they still

sell film backs none the less. My prediction is that Mamiya and Hasselblad will be around for

a while. Pentax is diversified in other areas and should have some staying power also.

Boutique companies like Rollie? Time will tell.

<i>People often don't think about the emerging markets in third world countries where purchasing a digital camera is not even an option, but purchasing a film camera and film is easily done.</i><p>

 

People who say this have spent virtually no time in "emerging markets." The infrastructure never existed in many of these countries to support film - even something as simple as a reliable water supply is missing. However, the infrastructure for digital is very different. As a result, most of them offered film processing only in major urban and tourist markets but offer digital everywhere now.<p>

 

I was in a country poorer than China over two years ago, a country that certainly fits the term "emerging markets." There were no film cameras in the stores, only digital, every lab had huge signs announcing "Digital" in the window, and film processing was only in tourist areas. Even in those areas, the locals were crowded around the digital counter and the film was dusty. I had to go to five shops to find any medium format film, in a city of more than five million. And it wasn't what I wanted, but I bought it because I had been to the shops people had told me would have 120.<p>

 

It's just like it is with phones in these areas. The infrastructure for phones was never built out - many villages would have a single pay phone for the whole village. But now, with cellular much easier to implement, half the village is walking around with cellphones. I've seen this in Asia, Latin America and Africa.<P>

 

The problem I see is that film processing is disappearing rapidly. The last lab near me that did enlarger-based medium format printing is not doing it anymore, they have dismantled their color processor, and I'm sitting on eighty rolls of 120 color film that I will have to drive thirty miles to get contact sheets and prints made for. The film will probably rot here at home, because I haven't seen any new labs open for at least ten years.

Jeff's totally right here - but it's also true that film manufacture IS cheap, and "emerging markets" will probably buy up assets of film producers who can't compete on their existing cost basis and provide us with excellent film for many years to come.

 

There will be market consolidation - we will lose manufacturers, brands, and products. But we will be left with a good variety of outstanding products - albeit at somewhat higher prices - for a very long time.

 

Welcome to life in a "mature technology" world.

From www.engadget.com:

 

"It looks like another venerable Japanese camera company is about to exit the business,

just weeks after Konica Minolta produced its last camera. According to reports out of

Japan (which we've confirmed with our Japanese bureau), Mamiya, best known for its high-

end pro equipment, will be selling off its film and digital camera business to focus on

other sectors. The company apparently has had "stagnant sales" of its digital models,

including its 22-megapixel, $12,000, Mamiya ZD, which was released in Japan in

December and in Europe just last month. The buyer is apparently Cosmos Scientific, a

Japanese company better known for its IT business than for any expertise in digital

imaging. As of now, it looks like the deal is set to close on September 1. We'll keep you

posted as we get further details...."

 

I fear that Hasselblad & Leica are not far from this state of affairs. BUT I do believe as

others do, that film will be around for another decade or so at least.

D. Diehl, see this:<p>

 

<a href="http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2006/04/mamiyas-demise-greatly-exaggerated.html">Mamiya's Demise Greatly Exaggerated </a>

Mailing film for processing is the only option if you want quality processing in most parts of the world. And this hasn't really changed. 1 week for processing? Oh dear. Kodachrome took 3-5 weeks in Finland since the late 1980s. That's slow, one week is nothing.

<i>Mailing film for processing is the only option if you want quality processing in most parts of the world</i><p>

 

That's not a reliable option. I won't mail my film given what I have had not show up when it's been mailed. <p>

 

But that certainly wasn't my point. I would sit down with my printer and go over every negative carefully. We would look through the filters at the contact sheets and review test strips together. I have no interest in prints that depend on mailing to some stranger somewhere. I'd rather take pictures on my phone and work them over in Photoshop than depend on the machine in some remote location. I like my photos to look how I want them to look, and "mail" is a completely useless answer to that, totally opposed to my interest in making photos that look the way I want them to look.<p>

 

Some people may be happy with mailing their film off and getting back whatever they get back. I have too much investment in my own personal style to leave it up to some remote stranger.

Time to buy a fridge, and make your local retailers an offer to take all their 120 stocks off

their hands?

How does that solve the processing problem?

>People often don't think about the emerging markets in third world countries where purchasing a digital camera is not even an option, but purchasing a film camera and film is easily done.

 

That's what Kodak predicted about China and they were dead wrong. Apparently, most of the Chinese consumers skipped film camera totally when they wanted to buy a camera. The adoption rate for digicams were en mass and much sooner than what Kodak had originally expected. That was why the major layoffs was announced last year because of the unneeded capacity Kodak was sustaining to meet the demand spike which never came.

 

I agree with Jeff's reasoning about infrastrcture. I also think that the novelty of "being digital" brings about the mindset of being at the cutting edge and that's the selling point.