D200 built-in flash in commander mode with no visible output?

I'd like to use the built in flash of the D200 to trigger a remote SB800 using

CLS tech. I would like the built-in flash to function only as a commander and

have no visible output at all. I have found how to do this with the SB800 as

commander, but not the built in flash (my manual is getting worn from searching

and I have lots of test photos of the open manual). Tried custom E3 "Built-in --

" which seems like it should be off, but isn't. <p>Another issue is determining

if flash compensation set via the flash compensation button (above the lens

release button) shifts all the power settings made in the menu (custom setting

E3) for Commander and all Remotes. I think they shift them all in the amount

set via the external compensation button. It's a issue for me, as I am having

consistent under exposure (1 stop) with the SB800 as a cordless remote

triggered by the built in, if all are set with zero compensation. I have to

bump everyone up by +1 (using the external flash +/- button)to get a good

histogram on photos made with flash as the primary light source (not

fill).<p>Thanks for your time responding to these issues... t

Setting E3 as you have done to "Built-in --" prevents my built in flash going off when using one or more remotes (I have Sb800 and two SB600). There is still a bit of flashing going on a split second before the real flash as the units communicate but I don't see a on-camera flash in the final image.

 

Stuart

Yup! This can be very confusing if you're forgotten to reset the on board flash after your CLS shoot and then try to use it for lighting something. ;)

Ah... I see a specular highlight in my subjects, and that must be caused by the pre-flash/communication light pulses that you speak of... It lead me to believe the flash was actually firing. I even went so far as to watch the flash while releasing the shutter, and that "communication" sure is bright :^), and it causes a specular highlight in eye glasses, usually two, which is really annoying... exactly what I am trying to avoid (being annoyed). Maybe I'll try one of those SoftScreens that Lumequest is making for pop-up flashes... Thanks Stuart... t<div></div>

Even with the internal flash set to not contribute to the exposure it does still show up slightly due the a feint glow still dying down as the remote flashes fire for the exposure. Putting a strip of exposed [black] slide film over the internal flash can help.

I was wondering the same thing, and in fact, posted this very same question a few days ago!

alas, the results are the same, the preflash is a nuisance! Has anyone tried this pop-up flash

cover?

Stuart:

 

" ...Setting E3 as you have done to "Built-in --" prevents my built in flash going off when

using one or more remotes (I have Sb800 and two SB600)..."

 

I'm sorry, but this has me totally confused. How can you use the D200's on-board flash to

trigger a remote wireless SB -800 (or 600, for that matter) if it's not set to "Commander

mode" in Custom E3? "Built-in" just does not trigger the remote speedlight. In my

experience, at least. Is there something I'm missing?

The Nikon SG-3IR (usually erroneously referred to as the "SG-31R") is a flash blocker that sits in the hot shoe of a D200 or D70 and permits the on-board flash to function as a commander (the SG-3IR transmits infrared light, and the Nikon SB-800, SB-600, and R1C1 flash heads will respond to infrared). The SG-3IR costs less than the Lumiquest diffuser, but the SG-3IR works better for what you're trying to do.

 

It's a mode dignified version of the black slide film trick that Alice recommends. Unlike the slide film, the SG-3IR will not overheat and turn nasty from repeated flashes, and the SG-3IR is easier to position. (incidentally, that's unexposed slide film that's black, not exposed).

Yep, I just found the page in the manual I was looking for...page 166 step 12 "M--" is the setting for the built in flash for command only output, just as Stuart said. They recommend a "small aperture to reduce the effects of the timing flash in close up photographs". Right. <p>Now, as Joseph says, I have to find an SG3-IR filter. Any good leads Mr. Wisniewski? A search at the Nikon site and with Google turn up nothing. Edmund Scientific and make my own? Now to figure what nano-meter cutoff filter is right to pass the command but not the visible light... what fun.<p>Also, page 163 says Flash Exposure compensation has no effect in Commander mode (and won't effect the built in when it is set as the commander) , and page 165 says Flash Compensation applies to "all speed lights" designated as remote flash units. So that answers the second question.<p>Thanks to all for the help... t

"<i>"Built-in" just does not trigger the remote speedlight. In my experience, at least. Is there something I'm missing?

</i> <p>Yep, you have to set the SB800 as a remote unit on the same channel as the built in flash. Once designated as Commander (E3), you can set the built in to <i>any</i> setting and it will transmit camera data to the Remote Speedlight, upon releasing the shutter. "M--" is manual with no output except camera data. But you can set it to be TTL, or any manual setting you like down to 1/128th power. Just remember, when the built in flash is set to Commander mode, the flash compensation button with have no effect on it, only on the remote units... t

Won't FV lock function solve your problem?

uhh what problem? What I am attempting to do is walk around the world with an SB800 in my pocket and a D200 on my shoulder and have instant remote control over the SB800 as my only light source triggered by that D200 with no SG-28 cord hassle. FV lock is cool, but not as quick and spontaneous as it requires an initial preflash and then the actual flash for exposure and you have to do it each time the scene changes... kinda like red eye reduction on steroids, not good for that decisive moment, when conditions are rapidly changing.<p>I did find the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&Q=&is=REG&O=productlist&sku=410445">SG-3IR</a> (I put the dash in as "SG3-IR" on my first searches... Thanks again Joseph... t

Here's what I was getting before this thread started, about 1 stop under, wuth the Built-in Commander Mode at 2 stops under and SB800 Remote Mode with 0 compensation. I am now going with +1 on the SB800... t<div></div>

Tom:

 

The flash blocker is readily available at Adorama:

http://www.adorama.com/INKSG31R.html?searchinfo=sg-31r&item_no=1

 

I got it from there last week. It is nicely designed except for the fact that taking it out of the flash hot-shoe is a little clumsy.

Thanks for the link. Can you open and close the built in flash with this IR filter in place?... t

D200 manual, p. 163:

 

" Built-in (set at) "--"

 

" Built-in flash does not fire, but AF-assists illuminator lights. Built-in flash must be raised

to allow monitor PRE-FLASHES to fire..."

 

Isn't this what we're looking for?

Tom - I don't know where to find one. The little buggers are backordered at B&H, and the Adorama website doesn't tell you if things are actually in stock. Both places show it as SG-31R instead of 3IR.

 

The deflector is spring loaded. To lower the pop-up flash, push down on he pop-up flash normally, and the motion will push the SG-3IR out of the way. To raise the pop-up, you have to pull the lower edge of the SG-3IR forward about 1/4 inch, which I can still manage with the left index finger while pressing the D200 pop-up flash button with left thumb. (or was it thumb on the deflector, finger on the button?)

Yes Bernard, that's what we were looking for, and found about 7 posts back from yours. But thanks for posting it, anyway.<p>Joseph, I'd really like to know the nanometer cut off value of that SG-3IR filter (750?) so I could just buy a 3"x3" gel, cut it to fit and tape it to the teeny little flash head in the pop up. I almost never use that flash as a flash. I'm going to try the 87C gel filter I have from my 4x5 HIE days and see if the SB800 can read the timing and camera data through it. I'll let you know... t

Could't find my gel 87 filter, but found a glass theaded one and taped it flush to the front of the built in flash... works like a charm, perfect exposures and <i>no</i> visible flash from the camera.<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=102762&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation">Here it is</a> in a 3x3" gel at B&H for $14... t

If I were to use the plastic SG31R attachment, wouldn't I still be wasting a considerable

amount of battery power with each shot?

Tom - cool. Just beware, gels close to the flash get hot, and they don't take it well. If you space them out 1/2 inch or so, they're fine, and last a long time.

 

Vishal - the short sequences of flash "messages" don't use anywhere near as much power as a picture taking flash. I've done shoots with the D200 triggering a pair of SB-800 a couple of hundred times, and the battery didn't seem to deplete any faster than normal (about 1/2 drained from 200 shots). It looks like the onboard flash, in commander mode, doesn't use up as much power as that huge D200 LCD.

Joseph, I plan to make a little envelope from a T shaped piece of the gel that will slip over the flash head with a little space left in between. A small piece of blk gaffer tape on top of the flash should hold it in place, and I hope to configure it so it can still close for when ambient is good and I don't want <i>any</i> flash to fire. The closing latch is at the bottom of the flash's recess, so I'm optimistic that mfg tolerances will permit the thin gel to stay in place. Thanks for the combustibility reminder :^)... t

Just got the gel. Ignored Joseph's warnings and taped a little piece of gel just big enough to cover the flash lens and it works great. <p>I don't think I'll use this for any long, rapid fire event where the pop up flash might melt down the gel, but for spontaneous quick light (like parties and hiking trips) it's perfect. It even works with the flash held behind my back... t <p>(pictures later)

Here's what it looks like...t<div></div>

and it works great, but I'm getting paranoid that I might roast the little flash head... amybe I'll spring for that little SG-3IR after all... t