What's a good vintage 8 or 16mm type movie camera?

I've been toying with the idea of getting an old 8mm or 16mm movie camera for

short films and experimentation and was wondering if anyone had any

recommendations. There are tons of them on the used market, you can find them

for almost nothing at the Goodwill type stores and pawn shops. I want that

grainy film quality that makes it look more like a "film" rather than a VHS or

digital tape. I know it's going backwards but I'm nostalgic for this stuff and

the spinning hum of the old fashioned projector is calling my name.

 

I know some people are still using them, I'm just wondering what the best way

to go is. I'm sure new ones are being made as well but I don't want to spend a

lot of money at this experiemental stage.

 

Any comments or advice are welcome.

 

TIA

Okay, a rundown on 8mm v 16mm. Most 8mm film folks are using super 8. Prior to the 60s, "regular 8" was popular, using double perf film that restricted the size of the image (it had to fit between two rows of perforation).

 

Then somebody came up with super 8 (sigle perf), which allowed a bigger image, and a better aspect ratio (same height, greater width). At the same time, most S8 cam mfgs started making TLR cameras for the new film. Great improvement. Most of these cams were designed for the consumer market, but many of the higher$ models were capable of professional work, and had the same features as much more expensive professional equipment. The last feature they added to these models was a magnetic audio track. You had to have a special film for this, a film that is no longer mfgd. So all the folks on ebay who are buying the sound-capable S8s are in for a disappointment, if they're expecting to record the sound on the film.

 

A lot of good work is being done on S8 these days, but its limitation is really in the negative size. Part of the way around that limitation is transferring the film to digital, and then editing it on the computer. You get the feel of film, but in digital format, much like a DVD of a movie. I would recommend this approach whether you go 8mm or 16mm.

 

On to 16mm for a minute. Unless you go to the expensive Super 16 for mat, which gets you into thousands of dollars, 16mm restricts you to a 4:3 aspect ratio (like regular TV). That's not bad, it's just what it is.

 

16mm cams followed a little different development path (I'm talking about this because it explains what's out there in the market that is affordable for guys like you and me).

 

All in, you are ssacrificing some aspect ration going from super 8 to 16mm, but you're oicking up a much bigger negative, and thus better resolution (all depending on film speed, of course; if you want that grainy effect, you gotta use grainy film--high ASA). But, given the same speed film, for the same framing you're gong to get a better negative with 16mm.

 

Now when S8 was going crazy with nifty stuff like TTL and zoom capability, most 16mm cameras were sticking with the old rangefinder approach, with some exceptions. Remember, we're talking about affordable cameras here. 16mm certainly kept up with those features in semi-pro cameras (Bolex RX series, and Canon Scoopics, for example), which were extemely expensive for the regular guy when they were manufactured. Fortunately today you can get some fine examples of these in the 600-800 range. But that's still pretty expensive for a guy that would just like to experiment some.

 

So here's the rundown on 8mm, as I see it: ebay is certainly one place to go. I've bought and sold lots of these kinds of cameras on ebay. Given ebay, where you'll get your best bang for your buck, take a look at the Canon 814 Electronic model. It is one of the vey few cameras in an affordable $ range that has variable shutter control. It's a well-built camera, and has all the features you need for what you want to do, and more. And here's the good news: if you hunt and you're patient you can get one in virtually mint condition for about $100.

 

Now there are some other fine, similar cameras. I recommend you study up on the 814 (be sure to get a domestic one, not one from Europe, since certain European models have a standard shutter speed of 18 fps instead of the 24 fps you want).

 

One nice thing about most of the better S8s--and there are some really expensive ones out there--is that most of them were bought by folks who never really used them. Purchased and placed on the shelf after a try or two to understand all the controls and options. This means most of them are in close to mint condition. You really get a lot for your money.

 

As you study the 814 and see its features, then you will know what you're looking at as you check out other similar models.

 

And just look at Super 8. You can get confused by some of the other 8mm out there, like double-8, Super Double 8. Don't be tempted to fiddle with these, no matter how good the camera looks or how cheap it is.

 

If you go 16mm, and you're budget conscious, there's only two or three cameras that would be good for you: 1) the Bell and Howell Filmo series, especially the 70DR. Again, if you shop, you can "steal" a fine one on Ebay. I've been doing it for years; 2) Bolex H16 rangefinder series (both the Bolexes and the B&Hs have reflex viewers that let you check TTL before you pull the trigger); 3) The Canon Scoopic in 16mm, which will run you more than one of the other two, but then has TTL shooting capability.

 

Hope this perspective helps.

Super 8 came out in April 1965. Here I own a high end Beaulieu MR8 reflex regular 8 camera with D-mount, slr like focusing on the screen, variable speed/fading shutter, with a TTL meter too. One can use a D mount to C mount to Leica Thread, Nikon F thread etc. Regular eight film stock is now spotty, some folks due a double perf of 16mm and own a slitter. With the MR8 when the shutter is really faded and the speed is at 64fps, one can get each frame at 1/500 second. <BR><BR>Study what actual films are available, and ths costs, before an 8 or super 8 adventure.

actually there's never been a better time to shoot super 8 film wise

 

www.pro8mm.com

 

have fun