ETTL or manual....

Hi,

<p>

I'm really in need of some advice before I spend money on something that I'll

regret.

<p>

I currently do a fair bit of home-based "studio" work using a pair of Bowans

Gemini Esprit 500s. I therefore understand about using manual, off camera flash.

<p>

Now I'd like to invest in a lightweight portable flash for location work, and

this is where I'm stuck. By "location work", I really mean quick portraits and

general low-light photography. For anything more serious I'll probably just take

along my studio strobes.

<p>

One option is to buy the Canon 580EX. I've never used ETTL (other than the

next-to-useless on camera flash), but I think I nevertheless have a good

technical understanding of the principles behind it thanks to the numerous

articles out there (Photonotes, Doug Kerr's wireless guide, etc.). There are

things that I like the idea of:

<ul>

<li>Easy on-camera fill flash.

<li>Remote control of off-camera flashes via an on-camera controller such as

another 580EX or ST-E2.

<li>Automatic ratio control.

</ul>

However I have concerns:

<p>

<ul>

<li>Wireless control is done optically, and it would seem that this isn't great

in daylight, especially if the flash is behind me.

<li>Going radio isn't an option if you want to keep ETTL functionality

</ul>

<p>

Next-up, I'm using a 30D; is ETTL II really a decent system, or would I be

better off turning the flashes to manual mode? If I go fully manual, then I have

to consider:

<p>

<ul>

<li>Is there any point is buying a 580EX? There are much cheaper alternative if

ETTL isn't a requirement. Would the ETTL still be useful from time to time?

<li>In fact, should I buy a Canon flash at all? Since they don't even have a PC

socket (ridiculous), making them more awkward to connect to a wireless-by-radio

system.

</ul>

<p>

There are various sites that offer superb lighting advice. <a

href="http://www.planetneil.com/faq/flash-techniques.html">Neil van Niekerk</a>

makes out-standing use of on-camera flash and ETTL. On the other hand, <a

href="http://www.dg28.com/index.html">Neil Turner</a>, whos images I also

appreciate, uses off camera flash for most things. <a

href="http://strobist.blogspot.com/">David Hobby</a> is an avid advocate of the

off-camera cheap flash with pocket wizards approach.

<p>

The problem is that without having enough on-location flash experience I find it

very difficult to decide on the best way to go. I also don't have any experience

with ETTL to know if I trust it, although if it works I'd be happy with it,

obviously. Is the wireless-by-optical limiting?

<p>

I like Niel van Niekerk's approach of bouncing the on-camera strobe as much as

possible, and this is great for the photographer who needs to move with his

subject. On the other hand, for static subjects, the point mady by David Hobby

is a good one - that off-camera strobes give a good lighting consistancy and

allow the photographer more freedom of movement without having to constantly

change the flash position. I can therefore see myself doing both depending on

the circumstances.

<p>

I suppose the ideal solution is a 580EX with pocket wizards, which would also

allow me to use my pocket wizards on my studio strobes, however I can't afford

that approach. The ideal ideal would be that Canon introduce a radio based ETTL

system, and it rather concerns me that they'll do that just <b>after</b> I buy

the kit!

<p>

So, that all said, I'd really appreciate hearing your experiences on on-camera

vs off-camera and ETTL vs manual. Maybe you'll give me some things to think

about that I haven't already considered.

<p>

Thanks,

<p>

Tim

You've obviously done your homework. Just a data point for you. I have three kids who don't understand "hold still". Or "Please, please, stay there for a second". So ETTL/ETTL II & my 30D is a tremendously useful thing for me. Lightyears beyond what I could do before with my Vivitar 285s.

If you'll be doing anything candid on location, then it will be of great use to you.

On the other hand, if you can pose your subjects, and have time to adjust the flash output and/or distance, then fully manual on a cheap flash will save you a few bucks -- maybe even enough for a set of pocket wizards. And it'll give you consistency, as you're well aware.

The wireless-by-optical thing is only limiting in that you need to have your devices reasonably close by. And I could imagine that some configurations, particularly having the slaves behind you, outdoors, would be a problem. I've not had any issues, but I'm usually inside.

I use a 580EX when shooting weddings. I don't use, and never have used, Canon's wireless system. When I want off camera flash, I use a manual, off camera flash. Either a Dynalite system, Norman 200B or Sunpak 120Js on manual. I often times use the manual off camera flash with the 580EX on-camera, in ETTL. You aren't supposed to--it isn't supposed to "work", but it does in practice. The reason I've never used Canon's wireless system is because I have heard of and seen examples of the problems--distance problems and aiming the flash and/or wireless "red spots", and funky ratios. I am not trashing the system--I never used it, but that is what I have heard.

Are you thinking of using one flash on-camera or several flashes? I would assume several, if you're talking about ratios and the like, but it isn't clear.

ETTL/II by itself is kind of funky. ETTL, the original, was funkier. ETTL II (in the 30D) is more consistent, and with observation and testing, you should be able to control it (rather than the other way around). If you are used to manual flash, you may or may not be dismayed at it's "whims". If on your location shots you are talking about multiple flashes and portraits, I would go the route of The Strobist and get cheap manual/auto thyristor units. If you are talking about shooting weddings, I'd get the 580EX.

I also used to use Wein's ProSync infrared system with much success, but they don't like to work--or should I say, Canon's 580EX doesn't like to work with anything that is also infrared (I don't even know what the real problem is). So I bought some of those cheap Chinese radio slave units off ebay and they work OK, even on weddings. I get enough reliability out of them to cover the shots I need off camera flash for--including reception hall lighting.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

I also asked this question on the OPF forums. It seems that the general consensus is the same: ETTL can be great for quick and simple lighting, or for constantly changing environments. For "staged" work manual off camera flash offers the greatest consistancy and creative control, which isn't surprising.

Perhaps for the moment the most flexible (and expensive) solutions is a Canon master and slave combo, giving you ETTL when you need "quick and simple", and manual with remote control of slaves when you want more control. At a later stage it's also possible to use a radio system to trigger the flashes (without any ability to control the settings) under arrangements where optical transmissions doesn't work.

Now I need to decide if that's an investment I'm prepared to make...

Regards,

Tim