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Help... trying to chose a folder


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I'm looking for an absolutely amazing lens, and I'm looking to get

for under $100 canadian ($80usd). Rembember that old engineering

adage?... "You can have it Good, Fast, and Cheap... now pick two."

I've picked Good and Cheap- mind you f4.5 isn't that slow-, but now

I have to pick a camera. After reading about the resolution test

done on the 100mm f/4.5 Anastigmat (Kodak 620 Special), I became

hooked on the notion of folders. What am I looking for? A VERY poor

man's Hasselblad Planar 100mm; impecable resolution with minimal

distorion in a medium format camera with neg sizes 6x6, 6x7, or 6x9.

 

Here's what I'm looking at right now...

 

-Agfa Isolette with Solinar 75mm f3.5 from Jurgen Kreckel (certo6)

 

-Ziess Ikonta with Tessar 75mm f3.5

 

-Zeiss Nettar 517/16 with Novar Anastigmat 75mm f6.3

 

plus some unknowns...

 

-Kodak Vigilant 620 (lens unknown, but may be f-4.5 101mm Anastigmat

Special... tessar-style?)

 

-Kodak Monitor 620 (lens unknown)

 

-Kodak 620 with Anastigmat 105mm f4.5 (Tessar-type?)

 

 

Unfortunately however, time is against me as I'm returning to a home

with internet access quite soon. If any of you out there could help

me find info, lens test results, or even better worked with these,

or other cameras personally, your replies would be very much

appreciated. Thanks.

 

-Jonathan

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Sorry, none of the Tessar type (and especially triplet type) lenses are going to give you the edge to edge resolution of a Planar. No free lunches! Also, with a front cell focusing design, less accurate focusing and rigidity issues, you will further lose ground against an SLR.

 

I have an Ikonta 521/16 with Tessar 75/3.5 (in Canada) and I could share some image details with you off list if you want to see what its capable of. I have shot a comparision against my Rolleiflex Xenotar (Planar type) but it is an excellent lens in the f/8 and beyond range that I use it. Its a great camera, don't get me wrong, but its no Rollei or Hasselblad.

 

You might also wish to consider a modestly priced TLR over a folder. Depends on how important the compactness of the camera is to you.

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Seems like a Zeiss camera with a Tessar or anything from Kreckel is likely to be beyond your budget. The Anastigmat Special on the Monitor, Vigilant and other Kodaks is close to the Zeiss Tessar in quality, but post-war Kodaks often have poor quality bellows. The Novar is a nice, affordable lens capable of good work, but it isn't usually thought of as amazing. There are quite a few pre-war non-Zeiss cameras that had Tessar lenses including Welta and Certo, and they are often less expensive than comparable Zeiss models.<br>     I'm attaching a recent shot from my Kodak Monitor with the Anastigmat Special f/4.5 101mm lens. I like the camera, but I generally have better luck with the shorter 70-80mm lenses on my 6x6 and 6x4.5 folders.<div>00C2CJ-23217884.jpg.e89c0238c4093f4984462b7dcd08d15f.jpg</div>
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Look at S. Liu's thread down a bit on this list for an example of what can be done with a camera & lens. If your budget isn't Planar, then you shoot with what you can afford & figure out what images the camera does well. A good TLR will have a surprisingly nice lens, be very "lunch-box" portable and easy to use. Plus you might find one for less than $80 and can then spend the rest of your money on film. Or a meter.

 

OTOH, you could try for one of the Soviet folders - say a Mockva 5 or such. Still, you aren't getting anything like a Hasselblad. Hasselblads are like another universe.

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Hmmm... TLR. Not a bad idea, but after spending the last two nights online 10hours per night looking for a folder, I guess I'm just too in love with how great they might be to give up now.

 

I found a good Vigilant 620, that's fresh out of the box, and has probably never been opened (could be interesting). The only pictures I have are below, and I'm still curious about the lens and what on earth that pattern of white specs is, as I haven't noticed anything like that on any other jpg photos of vigilants.

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A really cheap but effective 6x9 folder is the pre-war or just post-war Voigtlander Bessa with uncoated Skopar f3.5 in a Compur Rapid shutter. They should come with mask for 6x4.5. Here's a snap taken with this camera and a crop from the frame. I think I've recommeded this model here before but it bears repeating.

 

Roger<div>00C2Fl-23220884.thumb.jpg.5568781766220faf5ebb94ec62267af2.jpg</div>

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Folders are great. They cost less, weigh less, and are generally a lot easier to get into good working condition than other types of cameras. You can stick two or three in your pockets, each with different film, and be ready for anything.<br>     I've been able to use 120 film in both my Monitor and my Vigilant by trimming the spool ends flush with the paper and using a 620 spool on the take-up side.
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What exactly is your intended purpose with the pictures you take? I think people get a little too worked up about resolution tests on lenses (I know I used to). For real world applications I'm starting to realize it just doesn't matter.

 

I figured out that in my case my pictures sucked so the only thing I had to cling to was "sharpness" and "resolution". Unfortunately those things didn't make my pictures any better.

 

I've taken some incredibly sharp pictures with some of my best lenses...but the pictures are still boring and suck. I've taken some poor resulution pictures with cheap folders and box cameras; but they're great pictures inspite of that.

 

Did you happen to see this post?-

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00C05A

 

Those are from a cheap 35mm camera with many problems. They're not sharp or even focused on many of them...but the pictures rise above that. The content is what really matters.

 

So I say don't get so worked up about it. By yourself a cheap $20-30 folder (like a Zeiss Nettar) and see how you like it. Or if you want to spend a little more get yourself an Iskra. It's a great performer with a very good lens and a excellent coupled rangefinder. I love mine!

 

Good luck!

 

Alan

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You're not going to get (or rather will be unlikely to get) the same sharpness as a Planar for that money, but you can do well.

 

A couple that you can add to the list are a couple of Russians - an Iskra and a Moskva 5. I prefer the Iskra (6x6) as it is easier to use, with a big clear, combined RF window, and it is much sharper handheld. It is also quite adept even shooting into or near the sun, something that challenges my Yashica TLR. I woud rate it as my favourite camera.

 

The Moskva (6x9 and 6x) is very sharp (especially given its price) when used on a tripod, but is a little harder to handhold. You should be able to get either for under $100. I have several threads here with pictures from both cameras, or you can take a look at some others on http://pch.fotopic.net. (All my scans are done on a flatbed)

 

You could also look for one of the higher end Balda 6x6 folders, some of these have pretty good lenses.

 

You could also get lucky with a 2x3 press camera, like a Century Graphic. A little larger for sure, but you can easily pop another lens on later, and you get interchangeable backs (make sure you get one with a graflok back).

 

Good luck

 

Paul

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My real life experience with a Solinar 75mm f3.5 was rather pleasant. Of course I can't tell much; I shot rather fast film like TMY and HP5 and printed only on 8x10" paper using a PZO lens. - Advice: get something & have fun.
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In theory the folder with the best lens is the Voightlander Apo-Lanthar but that is going to cost you more than your Planar :(

 

In practice, you will find that any 4 element lens, properly CLA'ed, will be able to give you good photos at about f16 onwards. You quoted Chris Perez's tests (http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html) which show that a Kodak 620 has a center resolution of 60 lp/mm at f22 , while a Hassleblad Planar 80/2.8 has a center resolution of 54 lp/mm at f22.

 

Hence, I would think that you can get the folder, but always use an aperture of f16/22/32 in order to get your shots... This, of course, limits your shooting range as compared to your hassie. (You can only do handheld in bright daylight with fast film, and no blurring of the background etc)

 

If you can live the disadvantages (fixed and slow lens, mostly using a red window for film, old and dirty exterior, only a few with coupled rangefinder) etc, then it is a good buy.

I would suggest looking also at the Iskra and Super Isolettes, which have good 4 element lenses, but you may have to get them cleaned up.

 

For myself, I have 3 iskras :):) (one of which is a converted red window with disassembled lens right now) and they are all very sharp at f16 and very portable. Unfortunately, at f4/5.6 the resolution is poorer for landscapes, but just nice for portraits :)

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