ADMIN: Guidelines for Adhering to Topic

this thread is a classic example of trying to fix something that ain't broke.

Because Grant is such a great photographer and a prolific poster, his negativity has that much more force. I've had nothing but politeness and good crit from him, but he really stings sometimes, and the target tends to overreact. I'm not sure he acknowledges his nastiness either. My guess is his attitude comes from an inflated sense of his own talent and a not-so-inflated view of some of us.

 

If he returns with the same 'tude, the same thing might happen again.

 

No need to change this forum, Bob. Leica made reflexes, makes digitals, Canon and VC and others make/made lenses for the RF Leicas. The loose rules of content here have made it an interesting place to visit and hang out.

 

BUT STOP CALLING PEOPLE NAMES! Nobody here is a fascist. You want to hit them take their ideas apart. It's stronger.

 

Name calling is why we're having this thread.

I wasn't calling you a name-caller. Not sure if that's clear.

Bob,<br><br>

 

<i>Others want it to be open to discussion of all and any rangefiner cameras, even non-Leica cameras. I doubt those groups will get along well. </i><br>

 

<p>I tend to agree with much of what Gary Williams said</p>

 

<p><i>Photos and discussion related to Leica cameras, lenses, both M and R; M mount Zeiss RF and lenses; Leica thread mount bodies and lenses, from Leica O. Barnack screw mount to Canon RF and lenses, CV LTM and M mount Bessas and lenses, as well as LTM Fed and Zorki. Oh yea, Minolta made a LTM camera and a few lenses as well. Furthermore, Leica P&S film cameras, and yes, Leica and Panasonic P&S digital cameras. Let's also include Leica R lenses used via adapter on Canon digital bodies</i>.</p>

 

<p>I would also keep the Epson RD-1 here, they use Leica-mount-compatible lenses and - in the absence of a digital RF Leica - many here look at them as substitutes for Digital Leica RFs, in the same way as the EOS is considered by many as a substitute for a Digital Leica R.</p>

 

<p>Also include third party lenses in Leica mounts, such as Nikon, Kilfitt, Kinoptik, Angenieux, Astro Berlin.</p>

 

<p>Non-Leica-mount compatible rangefinders such as Nikon and Contax and Non-Leica fixed lens rangefinder cameras and MF rangefinders like Bronica and Mamiya would find a new home in a rangefinder forum.</p>

Those who are more into equipment ownership and Al worship stay here. Others, who are

more into shooting and crafting photographs, know where to go. Easy and everyone is

happy.

 

BTW, everyone needs a kick in the butt once in awhile regarding their pix. Would you

rather get it from a great shooter like Grant, or someone that can help you with difficult

chrome/paint decisions?

Just because grant shoots doesn't give him the right to verbally slap others in the face. The thread that got him booted was a absolute shame and he brought it on himself. There just isn't room in an internet forum to tell others to *&(* themselves. Frankly, I can't believe edmo is still allowed to post, his behavior in that thread was just as bad, if not worse, than grants.

Thanks for clearing that up John. But the shoe fit Dave, it wasn't name calling.

 

Fascist-somebody who supports or advocates a system characterized by dictatorship, centralized control, repression of all opposition, and extreme chauvinism.

RJ, I'll take some attitude from G & E any day over what otherwise gets posted here.

You are entitled to your opinion for what suits you best.

I'm suprised about all the talk here about splitting the forum in two; most of the really off-topic stuff -- the stuff Tony is most concerned with in his initial post -- has nothing to do with non-Leica rangefinders; typically has barely anything to do with photography at all. Many of the non-Leica rangefinders mentioned in an earlier post tend to get discussed in the Classic Cameras section. The modern non-Leica rangefinders all have Leica mounts. The medium format rangefinders get discussed in the Medium Format digest. I haven't observed a lot of angst within this group (until just now) about non-Leica rangefinder talk - maybe I've missed it. The real flames are over digital, politics or perhaps Leica's financial situation. I think it's nice the way it is; like Eric said, there's nothing broke about the way things are, as long as the majority of members are OK with some of us folks with Leica-like cameras dropping in from time to time.

<I>Brad - "... Would you rather get it from a great shooter like Grant, or someone that can help you with difficult chrome/paint decisions? ..."</I>

<P>When Grant asks, in his ever so polite manner, for someone to fornicate with his mother, I think most people would say he crossed the line. For you to kowtow to him, is your choice. I hope he spares your mother, unless his words are like pearls of wisdom to you.

<P>It's one thing to be a good photographer (your subjective opinion). It's quite another thing to continuously insult almost everyone he comes across (except for his small entourage). Mr. Atkins and Mr. Rowlett wouldn't be upset if people maintained some sense of civility towards their fellow man. Is that asking too much?

<P>If Grant is so great (in your eyes), why does he love to be a big rude fish in this small pond of politeness. Is he not good enough to run with the big boys? For instance, I don't see his stuff on the POW. Or is he too good for that too?

<P>A lot of people were put off by his infantile behavior. Are you that mesmerized by his talent that you don't care when he asks you to fornicate with your mother?

<I>For you to kowtow to him, is your choice. I hope he spares your mother, unless his

words are like pearls of wisdom to you.</I><P>

 

What a sorry person you are. I'll stop there...

<p><em>Well, I can make a "non-Leica Rangefinder Forum" and those who

don't want to use it wouldn't have to. However those tired of feeling like

"poor relations" here would have an alternative place to post, hopefully

in a forum with a more focused view and less hostility.</em></p><p>I

hope it wasn't me (in the very first reply in this thread) who suggested

this. Because, however well-intentioned it might be, I think it's a daft

idea. I don't use any Leica gear for any number of reasons -- I'm too

mean, I'm too stupid to appreciate it, take your pick -- but I've never felt

like a "poor relation". No, the reason why I asked

 w a y  back was that I read, or misread, Tony's

list of proposed rules as restricting discussion to the products of Leitz

and Leica.</p><p>I don't think there's any reason to change the forums,

as long as this one continues to have "Leica" interpreted very broadly

indeed.

But <em>if</em> people want to do so, and want to do so according to

the technology used, I'd suggest doing so according to lens mount.

That's what's already been done for "Canon FD" and "Canon EOS".

However, since screw/M adapters are commonplace and (I'm told)

virtually trouble-free, dividing M from LTM is silly.</p><p>Anyway,

having one place for "Leica" and another for Canon LTM, Hexar, etc. (but

not Leica) seems ludicrous.</p><p>What has irritated me and perhaps

others hasn't been any off-topicness. (When talk turns political, the

opinions with which I most strongly disagree usually seem so stupid that

they have an unintended comedy value.) What has irritated me are

snide, mean-spirited

attempts to attribute motives to other people, or to psychoanalyse

them: "The only reason you do X is because Y", etc.</p>

Brad, why don't you get off your high horse and ask those who were insulted by Grant, how they feel. Or is it simply that you couldn't care less. He insulted their mothers. I suppose that's ok with you, since he is such a great photo shooter, your leader, your visionary, your God. Who are their mothers anyway, just fodder for his perverse manners. His genius transcends such trivialities.

I'm hardly on a high horse. And the only "person" that's insulted my mother has been you.

Grow up Vic.

Keep it up guys. You'll be your own downfall in the end. Don't say you were not warned.

<i>For instance, I don't see his stuff on the POW.</i><p>Strange, I haven't seen Ralph Gibson's stuff on the POW either.

"When Grant asks, in his ever so polite manner, for someone to fornicate with his

mother......."

 

In fairness to grant's mother I'd like to point out that she's a mighty fine looking woman.

I appologise to you Bob. It's when someone brings up my mother...

Brad, I apologize, I didn't mean to insult your mother. I was trying to convey the feeling that others had when Grant insulted their's. I hope you know how it feels. It doesn't feel good in the least, it's really low. It says a lot that he never apologized to anyone, ever.

Spirer, that's completely silly logic, and you know it. If Grant hangs out on photo.net, he's had ample opportunity to flaunt his "skills" to the world of POW. Perhaps he can't handle rejection.

Brad, you and Grant are among the elite photogs on this forum, and if I'm not mistaken, friends off the net. But talent should have responsibility. Grant has insulted people; hurt them, picked at their pride (I wasn't privy to the obscenity thread). It's an honour for him to crit your pic -neg or pos-but name calling diminishes the speaker.

Well, I've had it. Bye, bye Leica-onians.

Vic, some people choose not to use the galleries on photo.net, which is required for POW. This includes grant, me, Brad, and Ralph Gibson.

there's galleries on PN?

Where's the quote where Grant did that Vic?