Mamiya 6: Metering Area

Hi, does anyone know the metering area (or angle) of the Mamiya 6 camera when

seen inside the viewfinder? It would be appreciateed if anyone could point out

a link or diagram that can illustrate the metering area in a way similar to

the diagram shown in the Mamiya 7 official brochure.

 

I'm a long time SLR camera user and recently jumped to the digital bandwagon,

but found that digital cameras cannot yet match the image characteristics of

black and white pics, even for the small 35mm format. I bought the Mamiya 6

because I like B&W street snaps and want a handy camera that can use the

larger 6x6 negative (medium format SLRs are just too clumsy to carry around).

 

Finally, I heard the Mamiya 6 metering area/angle would go beyond the view of

the 150mm lens (which I would use more often for street snaps). Has anyone

tried to put baffles (or a cut-out piece) at front of the metering window to

make the internal meter of the Mamiya 6 work more accurately with the 150mmm

lens? Thanks.

Mamiya of America may be able to give you a pdf of metering pattern by lens- they certainly can for the 7, though of course thats a current camera

 

In any case the proportion of exposure information generated from outside the frame is very small- ie doesn't get outside the frame by much and the information is much lower weighted than that from the centre. And then you've got the fact that the actual frame is likely to be larger than the viewfinder framing.

 

Looks to me like a good issue to ignore with any film, but perhaps most especially with b&w.

 

I would not try to baffle the metering window for a whole host or reasons, but primarily because it won't make your exposure more accurate. Not everyone finds the metering of Mamiya rangefinders easy to get along with, and I think that getting a bit more experience in different conditions will do you a lot more good than baffling the metering window.

Dave, thanks for your suggestion. I hope Mamiya would be able to send me the metering patterns for the 6.

 

I know the metering angle/area for both Mamiya 7 is much smaller than Mamiya 6, and I read from various forums that Mamiya 7's metering works like center-weighted with the 150mm lens. The diagram in Mamiya 7's brochure looks like center-weighted for the 150mm frame line...

 

You have have any metering experience to share with the 150mm setup? Although Mamiya 6's average-metering is more convenient to use with its 50mm and 75mm lenses, for street snaps, Mamiya 7 with the 150mm lens may seem to be more suitable. Do you think so?

 

May be instead of getting a 150mm lens for my Mamiya 6, I should pass it and save some to get the Mamiya 7 body and 150mm lens.

Hello Cayuga,

I have a mamiya 6 for several years and can give you the following answer. The metering

area of the Mamiya 6 corresponds to the area of the 150mm. I have seen this information

several places and have a complete technical description/ test of the camera (but it's in

French so I can't send it to you). More importantly I have been able to verify this by myself

over years of using the camera. In my opinion, it was a very poor choice since tis

rangefinder (like all interchangeable lenses rangefinders) is more destined to use with

wide-angle or standard lenses.But if you use the 150 a lot maybe you won't mind it as

much.

As the previous post mentioned, you do not need to worry about the exact mesuring zone

since this is center weigthed. On the other hand , it means that the meter is VERY , VERY

sensitive to strong lights from the rest of the frame.

In other words, it has a strong trend towards under-exposure in case of backlight, light

coming from the side.with experience , you can avoid the problem by pointing the meter

towards the ground, hiding with your handlight coming from the side and such.

Once again, the real danger is under-exposure ( especially since you work in B&W like I do)

so you can always open up one stop form the exposure given by the meter

I have been working in medium format for 20 years and I can't still get past the point that

this camera could have become the camera. It has a lousy meter,has a fragile wind lever,

has this stupid central leaf shutter and the cumbersome lens changing procedure coming

with it, is not so well built like most mamia cameras (outside the Rb/RZ series) but yet is

with the rollei TLR's one of the two best cameras for street photography with the great

lens collapsing design so practical when you carry the camera in your jacket and great ,

great lenses

THe mamiya 50 mm lens is one of the 2 best wide-angle lenses that I have ever used

hope all this helps

H

Hi Herve. Your comments are appreciated.

 

If I understand correctly, you mean that the center-weighted metering area of the Mamiya 6 is about the same size/location as the 150mm frame line in the viewfinder?

 

If it's not too much hassles for you, I don't mind the French technical desription/test information, and if you kindly could, please send it to cayugabigred@yahoo.com Merci.

 

Since there is no time for street shots to use an external meter, I would probably need to rely on the camera's internal meter. However, I'm not sure if the Mamiya 6 or 7 would provide better metering for such purpose.

 

In your opinion, if it has to be chosen between the Mamiya 6 or 7 (both with the 150mm lens) for medium format street snap-shots, which one would you prefer?

The Mamiya 7 seems to have a slightly smaller metering spot - it's quite noticable if you point the camera at a light source and move the viewfinder around. The 6 is a bit wider in its metering angle. With both cameras you have the typical problems of averaging in-camera metering - mainly that it'll easily be confused by backlighting, bright skies, etc... Use the exposure lock to meter off the ground if you're in a hurry, or better yet get a small incident meter.

 

With either camera, too, you're going to find it hard going using the 150mm lenses for quick street shooting - the focus throw is much greater than the shorter lenses, and the framelines are very small. In contrast, the 6 with 50/75 and 7 with 43/50/65/80 are ideal street MF set-ups.

Hi again Cayuga,

I am quite sure that the difference in metering accuracy-if any- is not so big that you

should base your choice between the M6 and M7 upon this feature.My advice ? well , I

guess it based on 3 things;

The kind of shoots you make. you mentioned that you do mostly street Photography. But

you must be speaking of something different of what people usually mean by street

photography because in 20 years I have NEVER heard from someone using a tele on a

rangefinder as his main lens for street photography

on that score, the minimim focusing distance of the 150 mm for both the 6&the 7 makes

it no so practical. Not to mention the small window in the finder.(unless you use the not so

intuitive separate viewfinder)

with the proviso that you may use other lenses such as the 50 mm or the 75 mm , my

advice would be the 6 for 2 reasons;

with the 6 , you can use the 50 mm by itself. on the 7 , the 65 is the only wide angle to

use without the finder , so you can cover a wider scene with the 50mm

the collapsible front in my mind is a very useful feature for street photography. for all

those times when you don't have the bag or wants to keep the camera more ready to shoot

in your jacket

hope this helps

H

Since people have drifted in to the Mamiya 7 I'll jump in. I don't like the meter in the camera. Fortunately, bracketing almost always gets me the picture I want. Scanning and photoshop save a lot of shots as well. The meter is a narrow spot; as some mentioned you need to figure out your individual camera by pointing it at a light bulb. Great camera, but the meter makes some extra work.

I previously owned & really liked the Mamiya 6 - may get another someday depending.

 

With that said - I had the 50/75 & also a 150.

 

I never had an issue metering in camera - I actually compared the in camera meter with a Sekonic L-508 & it was dead on - One of my Nikon F-3's was off by a stop & the other was okay - so I simply dialed in +1 stop for the one body.

 

The metering actually reminds me of the Nikon F3's center weighted meter & I never had a problem. I would not get to caught up in the Rockwell version of camera angle verses metering etc. . More important to dial in + or - a stop depending on the lighting.

 

More importantly if you get a 150 - I was not happy with the field of view in the Mamiya 6 (the M7 is not going to be any better) and picked up an external viewfinder for it & it was better for framing but ultimately I sold the 150/finder & only used the 50 & 75.

 

Great camera & I miss it a lot & occasionally check the auctions for maybe another one.

 

Just do it & adjust accordingly depending on your shooting habits & the type of light you encounter under your usual lighting conditions.

 

Have fun & good luck.

Thanks for all your input and feedback. I realize that the 150mm lenses of both the 6 and 7 have only a minimum focus distance at 6ft but since I usually shoot at a focal length between 85mm and 135mm (on 35mm SLRs) for street snaps (handheld or on monopod, at about 15ft from subject, such as a person boarding a bus/train or getting off from a taxi, people at a hot dog stand, etc.), the 6ft minimum focus distance fortunately should not be an issue for me.

 

I also felt that the focus throw is a bit too long for quick focus with the 150mm lens when reviewing it at a store. The 150mm frameline inside the Mamiya 6 viewfinder is indeed much smaller than 75mm or 50mm, but it's actually not too bad compared to other 35mm rangefinders at focal lengths beyond 90mm.

 

The reason I jumped to medium format recently is because I found there is no substitute for a larger negative for printings larger than 16"x20". I've borrowed and tried both the Contax G2 (with 90mm) and Mamiya 7ii (with 65mm lens) from my photo buddies: the Contax G2 was very convenient to use but the result is not much noticeably different from my existing 35mm SLR setup, despite the great Contax 90mm lens. The Mamiya 7ii, from my brief experience with it, is more suitable for stationary/landscape subjects as it takes too much time (compared to SLRs) to compose, focus, and meter-- I don't want to miss the opportunity of a shot while treaking the exposure compensation and this was also the reason I bought a used Mamiya 6 instead, hoping for quicker and better street snap shots due to its wider-angle averaging meter.

 

Please kindly share your comments if any of you has experience on medium format street snaps. I also wonder if there is an alternative to the Mamiya 6/7 for a portable medium format camera.

The alternatives would be the Bronica RF645, which is another MF rangefinder, or a TLR like the Rolleiflex. I think there are some Fuji 645 cameras out there too.

 

I don't think you're going to find anything in MF much quicker to use than the M6 or 7 though - the rangefinder is a real advantage in fast street situations, and with practice it should certainly be as quick to focus as any 35mm set-up. If you use the AE lock you should be able to get good enough exposure for B&W film easily enough.

 

And regarding not using the 150 lens - one of the advantages of having a 6x6 neg is that you can use your 75mm lens and crop down without a big loss in image quality. Or just get a little bit closer!

There is of course a depth of field issue you might want to think about with medium format rangefinders. With MF you're using a longer lens to capture any particular composition. You could do with a 35mm camera and a 90mm lens what you can do with your 6x6 and 150mm. That longer lens knocks three feet off your depth of field at f11 and twenty feet, and more importantly maybe, it gives you a depth of field that you can't see or evaluate through the finder, and I imagine a lot of street work is fast to the extent that you can look at the (somewhat inadequate) lens markings and notionally adjust them prior to shooting. If your focus is at 10 feet and your aperture f4 then your dof is six inches.

 

That, and the probability that a 150 rangefinder lens is a little harder to focus critically that a shorter lens, is I suspect why many of the street photographers using MF rangefinders do so with wide and standard lanses, and why others stay with 35mm.

 

Now you might say that in the style of work you produce, depth of field isn't an issue or that reduced dof is even an advantage; if so fair enough. But if you don't, its even possible that the way in which dof calculators tend to work for 6x6 will be more optimistic than you want and if I use the same circle of confusion at f11/20 feet for a 90mm 35mm lens and a 150 lens on a 6x6 then the depth of field drops from c.8feet to c. 3 feet on the 6x6.

I use a Mamiya 7 with a variety of lenses, and do some of what folks refer to as street

shooting.

 

The 7's 150 is a great lens, amazingly sharp, and totally unforgiving of focus error. I

haven't used it for street shooting, and never would. As others have stated, the depth of

field is too small, the focus is too slow, and the maximum aperture is too small (and even

if it was larger, it would make the depth of field even worse). This will never be a quick

shooting lens, so forget about it and move on.

 

The 7's 43, on the other hand, is a great street lens (and I'd expect the 50mm on the 6 to

be great as well). Depth of field is adequate so prefocusing works, and camera shake in

decent light isn't an issue. And wide let's you get close, so there aren't posts or

pedestrians getting between you and your subject.

 

You already own the 6, so get a 50, get closer, bond with the wide view (this is where

these cameras shine), and have a great time. Don't worry about whether or not a 7 is in

any sense better---for street shooting I can't imagine there's a big difference favoring

either. And you get that cool square format.

 

Don't worry about the meter either. Use the camera, tweek exposure only when you have

time and the light is significantly off, and see if it is a problem at all.