P&S digital camera for trip

I'm off to Europe for 10 days and I'd like to get something much smaller than my Nikon

D100 for when I go out at night and don't want to lug the thing around. I'm looking for

about a 4 mega-pixel camera that doesn't take AA batteries, something with a strong flash

(or low light capabilities) for it's class, small and compact (must fit in my pocket), good

picture quality and battery life. I'm looking to spend $200-300 but will consider items

outside that range if they are truly spectacular. Thanks for your input.

Very few P&S digicams have a powerful flash at all. Most have a flash that will reach 10-15 feet (Larger P&S digicams often have one that can go 15-20 feet, and SLRs often have significantly more powerful onboard flashes, so if that's what you are used to, you will be in for a surprise).

 

As far as low light capabilites go, the sensors on the cameras are usually limited to a very grainy ISO 400, which is usually worse than ISO 1600 would be on your D100.

 

Your best option is likely a Canon G6, it has very low noise for a P&S camera, an F2.0 lens, and is more sensitive than a given ISO rating implies - ISO 400 on the G6 looks usable, and is equivalent with a "real" ISO 640 or so.

 

The G5 isn't nearly as good because the sensor is a lot noisier. The G3 could possibly be had for $300, and it's on the sensitive size, still has the F2.0 lens, and the 4MP sensor isn't as noisy as the G5's 5MP sensor.

 

 

The problem with these cameras is that they will not fit in your pocket.

 

 

The smaller cameras use F2.8 lenses, which when combined with what is usually ISO 200 at best, make for slow shutter speeds in low light. Even cameras that use a fixed focal length lens tend to be on the slow side (Olympus D-425 is F2.8, which gets you nothing on a typical zoom).

 

A final option would be a camera with image stabilization, like the Panasonic FX-2, you will be stuck with low shutter speeds, so you won't be able to stop motion very well, poor battery life, a weak flash, and the lens is rather slow on the telephoto end (F5.6) so you are forced to avoid zooming in much at all, without using the onboard flash.

 

For low light capabilites, this leaves you with relying on a small, weak flash, utilizing a very grainy ISO 400, using a camera significantly larger than you were planning on, getting a camera with IS that otherwise has some significant compromises, or looking at a compact film camera with a fast fixed angle lens, and some faster film (400-1600).

Ricoh Caplio GX. Has ISO 64, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600.. 800 not really too bad, 1600 maybe not so good, but works nice in B&W conversions. 5 meg. Manual exposure control. 28-85mm f/2.5-f/4.3 and it uses a hi capacity Lithium battery, OR 2 AA batteries in a pinch. And it has a hot shoe... and can fit in a pants or coat pocket (without flash attached). I have a small Sunpak external flash that can sit in a jacket pocket that I take along sometimes. Not sure if the GX qualifies as truly spectacular.. but it's truly _useful_ albeit more pricey,like around $500.00, and must be a gray market purchase in the USA..BUT they sell them in Europe!

Why don't you re-discover a Stylus Epic instead? f/2.8 and up to 3200 ISO if you want it... Have your negs scanned to CD when you get them processed if you want to email back home. You won't get anything that begins to match the capability in a pocketable digicam for nighttime shooting.

why are you specifically looking for only a 4mp camera that DOES NOT take AA?

I don't want AA batteries because that means that I've got to lug a AA battery charger

around with me. That takes up space and I'm only taking a backpack so I've got to be

space efficient. I'd rather just have a cord that plugs into the wall. Keep in mind that I don't

have a problem with batteries- it's just a space issue.

 

As for a film camera, there are some advantages to using film but for my workflow and

preferences working with digital has far more pros than cons for me.

 

Lastly, I don't have my heart set on 4 mega-pixel. It's just a number that seems would give

good enough quality considering my price objectives.

I've been looking at the Canon PowerShot S410 Digital Elph and that seems like a

reasonable option. Any thoughts?

 

Thanks for your comments so far.

Some AA battery chargers are so small that they are no bigger than a cord folded up. The Panasonic one even will let you fold the plug in so it is a nice flat little charger, about as big as a pack of cards.

 

And I am not sure why using film and letting the processor scan the pics to a CD is any different than your digital "workflow". A digital image is a digital image, no matter what medium it was captured with. The Oly Stylus Epic is a sound choice, given the circumstances you'll be using it in.

I can't think of any pocketable digicams that work well in low-light. The smallest I'd go with is a 2/3 sensor and since they all have zoom lenses, there is nothing that is small enough. Also, I don't know of any that you can plug directly into a wall. At the very least, they would have a transformer wart which is not going to be much smaller than a mini AA charger.

 

For a backup and small camera that can work in low light, film is probably your best bet. Either that or buy G5 and cargo pants. ;-)

 

Larry

I understand not wanting to take a charger with you, but considering that any cable will need a built in power supply, an actual AA charger and cable is not much different in size. Especially if oyu can find one that plugs directly into a wall.. That being said it's up to you.

Kevin, I understand you find the D100 bulky but you seek an alternative that does not exist.

 

If you're going to the same Europe I know, you'll find the plugs in the walls vary in shape (configuration) and character (mains specifications). Have you already solved that problem, and the transformer (120v/240v) issue? Or did the switch to a common currency come with a switch to a common current? Sorry, that was a lamentable one. But the point remains: "plug into the wall" isn't a one-size-fits-all there.

 

On the other hand, non-rechargeable AA batteries are ubiquitous, cheap, reliable... just the thing when traveling light. Same critters the world over, 1.5v DC apiece. Use rechargeables at home, but single-use ones for globetrotting.

 

Flash on a truly compact camera means redeye to me. Most truly pocketable digicams will give you redeye unless you're within about one meter of your subject, so people shots with flash are risky. Meanwhile, digicam flashes run out of punch at 4-5 meters, which means they're not much use for lighting nighttime scenery... if there is something that a digicam flash does WELL, it's news to me.

 

My very serious suggestion is that you would be disappointed in the real-world capabilities of a pocketable digicam. Use your D100 when you want pictures, and just use your eyes the rest of the time.

 

Be well, have a wonderful trip.

Kevin.

 

One other point I forgot to point out. If you plug your camera directly into the wall then your camera needs to deal with any power supply issues (surges, lightning, etc...). I know in western europe those are no more prevelant than in the US, but why risk the camera when you can risk a cheapo charger.

As others have suggested, look at the Canon G series. I have a G2 that I bought in Dec 2001 and I am still using it!!! Mostly I have a lens adapter mounted for filters/protection, but as standard it fits in the inside pocket of my jacket (just). The later G series got fatter which is one reason I never upgraded. That and it still does what I bought it to do.

The flash is not great, but it has a hotshoe for a real flash.

The original BP511 did approx 120 pictures on a charge. I always had a spare, but for a weekend trip it stayed as a backup only. I bought a replacement (third party) battery last year and its capacity was up to 1500mah from 1100mah, so it should last even longer. 3 years ago these batteries were expensive, but now they are quite cheap.

Tolerance to noise at higher ISO settings is subjective. I use 50/100, but avoid the 200/400 settings. With f2.0 wide, f2.2 tele you don't often need to push the ISO settings. I usually use ISO 100 and no flash for museums/churches. After all paintings are flat, so you do not need much DOF.

Regarding AA chargers. I have a Sony travel charger that takes 100-240V 50/60Hz. It weighs 108g. By comparison the 4 AA 2100mah batteries it came with weigh 116g! The power cord is detachable with a standard 2 pin connector. You could just replace the cord cheaply wherever you end up. In general continental Europe has sockets with two round pins, the UK has a three pin socket

The choice is yours... shooting at night time at ISO 50/100 with a pocketable digicam will give camera shake prone shutter speeds (are you taking a tripod out at night?) and limited flash reach, not to mention burned out highlights or no shadow detail. ISO 400 isn't a serious option (let alone anything higher) with tiny sensors. Maybe your digital workflow incorporates some hitherto unknown actions that correct for these failings?

Of course my workflow accounts for the limits of point and shoot digicams. It's called my

D100. I'm done scanning film. I've got boxes of old negatives and slides remaining to be

scanned and I'm not adding to that because I'm obviously planning to use this camera

after the trip as well. Let me be clear, I'm looking for the best point-and-shoot digital

camera in its class currently available with the aforementioned qualities. Of course it's not

as good as say, a Hasselblad on a tripod but that wouldn't accomplish my objectives.

(Unless someone has a Hasselblad that I can fit in my pocket for $200-300. For that I

would go back to scanning film :)

 

Thanks again for your time.

<< Let me be clear, I'm looking for the best point-and-shoot digital camera in its class currently available with the aforementioned qualities >>

 

There is no "best" there just is "different."

 

And your requirements don't fit any known point and shoot digital camera, IMO. Small negates strong flash or low light capabilities. Battery life from micro-compact cameras is sad. The "larger" compacts like the Canon G-series or A-series have better battery life but don't fit in a shirt pocket.

 

You'll have to decide where you want to compromise.

You mentioned the S410...it is a very sleek camera and can easily fit into a pocket, which

fits your criteria, but what I would dislike about the camera is the lack of ability to control

aperture or shutter speed. Of course you can use the different settings like portrait or

landscape to control it somewhat, but it doesn't have an Av- or Tv-priority mode.

 

Something else to consider about proprietary batteries is what happens if you lose the

charger? A friend of mine just lost the charger for her S410 (just a week after buying it)

and had a hard time finding another charger in stock anywhere local (and even Canon said

it was on backorder). She managed to find it at B&H, where it cost $50 to replace and she

had to pay to have it overnighted to her b/c she needed it immediately. That'd be a lot

harder to do if you were traveling someplace and lost the charger. What if you couldn't

find it in stock in the town you're in? At least you can always find AA batteries.

 

Just a thought. I like the Canon A series--A85 or A95. They are fantastic, and mine fits

easily into my coat pocket (though it's not small enough to fit into my pants pocket).