SO I should support my local camera store you say?

Had a big shooping day in the Big city. Went to the best Pro level

real camera store in the area. Everything from coolered film to the

latest digital junk. A whole bunch of used stuff although they seam to

have recently dropped all but a small bit of Manual focus stuff. Lots

of used MF.

 

Anyway after checked out a digital I suggested my son buy to use as a

snapshot camera in the Navy. I asked to look at a USED and I repeat

USED Voigtlander 75mm f2.5 in LTM one of the few new lenses I lust

after. The lens had two little finger print sized areas of full paint

loss on the focusing ring showing bright brass. Optically it was nice

and clean. Complete with both caps and the hood. I turned it over to

see the price and nearly dropped it. They were asking $340.00 USD for

a lens Camerquest sells for $295.00 NEW!!!

 

I asked the nice young lady who seamed concerned I didn't need a body

to look at the lens (Duh it's a RF lens what would putting it on a

body tell me I could see looking at it?) why it was so much she again

looked confused and said the used dept manager set the prices. I told

her the on line NEW price to which she said that maybe the lens was on

consignment and they have a set precentage. I asked if they would come

down she smiled and said she didn't think so.

 

OK since everything i did buy was 10-20% more then online I guess I'll

make the hour trip to the Pro shop ONLY when I have to.

 

The place was full of people in the middle of the day on a tuesday so

I guess they were selling something to someone. I had four other

things on my shopping list I had to pass on as they were just way to

expensive. A little flash diffuser on line $17.00 in the store $24.00

A Lowepro Mini Nova AW on line $28.00 or even less when they pop up on

ebay new, their price $36.00

 

I understand business but I also understand my bottom line same item

10-20% less means more in my pocket.

Re: "SO I should support my local camera store you say?"

 

I don't know. There's a couple of good camera shops in Vancouver which I support. I first went to my old standby and waited, waited and waited. Next day I went to this other one close to where I live. I ended up buying lots of stuff. The deals were excellent. So a couple of days later I went back and bought something else.

There are good stores and bad stores - support the good ones where they have the knowledge and the right prices.

 

Anyway by the time you added the shipping costs from your online merchants there would be little difference plus you get the advantage of examining the goods first.

Overall I think we need both shops and on-line retailers. However, if shops are to compete with Web sites they will on some level (if not price) have to offer something to the customer which a Web-based retailer cannot.

 

Even in the city over here, the camera stores which used to have a lot of used Leica stuff in their windows don't anymore. I've seen a lens in one store that must have been there for a year. But I guess that these stores are making money from new, digital camera sales so they can afford to sit on their overpriced used stuff for ages.

 

Ideally, the upside of on-line retailing is that shops must get better. One way or another.

Mark you make very valid comments. Some retailers wonder why their businesses are dying before their eyes. If they open their eyes, they will see why.

 

I, like you and a declining number of others, prefer to buy face to face from intelligent, experienced and committed (to photography) dealers and their staff where I can see, touch and play with what I'm about to buy. BUT, no one said we should be blindly stupid to support unintelligent, inexperienced, uncommitted and uncommercial retail dealers!

 

I am very fortunate here in Australia to have a wonderful very large second hand dealer in small format, MF and LF who personally has a massive wealth of experience and knowledge as well as business accumen. Likewise he only employs pro-photographers whom like to do some retail hours a week - no sleezy sales staff. This business is over 30 years old and going stronger than ever.

 

But, occasionally I find better value for money or just available product on the web through KEH and others. When the dealer provides quality advice and adds value to my photography, I prefer to give him the business if I can, but only if it makes good sense.

 

Yeh, your dealer is "dying" at his own hands.

 

By the way, the VC 75mm is an extremely good quality lens - sharp as a tac; nice colour and strong definition / contrast; nice blur. Great value for money (I used a loaner for a month or two).

Hey frank, which camera stores you go to around vancouver?

Simon since the 75mm f2.5 is available in both Canon Fd and LTM the two lens mounts I shoot the most I was having a hard time trying to decide which way to get it but after seeing it. I'm sure I would get the most use out of it in my RF bag. Plus with FD optics at 85mm 90mm and 100mm plus 5 zooms that cover 75mm. I think the front of my Canon L-1 would really do the lens justice. NOW to decide if I want chrome or Black LOL

 

Most likely black to go with my other late Canon RF lenses the 35mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.8

 

I'm hoping to complete my RF lens kit what I want to end up with:

 

28mm f3.5 either VC or origional Canon (most likely the VC)

 

35mm f1.8 Black and Chrome (I have)

 

50mm f1.8 Black and Chrome ( I have)

 

5cm f2.8 Elmar (I have)

 

75mm f2.5 Color Heilar VC (I'll buy new)

 

9cm f4.0 Elmar (I want the later version but the one I have is nice)

 

100mm f2.0 Black and Chrome Canon (this one will cost a bit more then the others!)

 

135mm f3.5 Chrome Canon (I have)Might sell after getting the 100mm

 

That should do me if I want wider I just put a Canon FD lens on with my adapter and zone focus. Anyone have a 17mm finder LOL

I live in a remote part of Ireland where there is no competition for prices and very little to even buy. The nearest camera shop takes full advantage of every sucker they can get, they even got me once.

I have learned more about this from this site than from any shop.

Local shops are a dying breed, it is not always a good idea to save something old and familiar just because of sentiment.

 

So guess what, I save $$$ and buy used online. The best fun I ever had was buying a light seal repair kit recently. Now my old Fujica G690bl has double light seals! twice what it was sold with when new.......

 

Cheers folks.

These are hard times when it comes to alliegence(sp). Many years ago, my (now) local dealer supplied me with neg bags that I could not get anywhere in a hurry. I later found out that he actually bought them from a competitor just so he wouldn't have to say 'no' to me.

 

A few years later I bought a comprehensive Nikon outfit from him. 2 bodies, 5 lenses, quite an outlay in one hit for me. Some time later, the outfit was stolen. My supplier immediately offered to replace it at HIS cost price to me, saying he never liked to profit from someone elses bad luck.

 

I should also point out at this stage that he is Jewish. On several occasions in an emergency for me, he has opened up his shop late on Friday night to supply me with film I desperately needed. Other times he has taken it home and invited me to call around at my convenience to collect it.

 

Now he getting on in years, his memory is not good. His staff warn me not to give orders to him because he forgets to place them with his supplier, so I give the order to his staff. He is carrying less stock so I can't 'shop' from his shelves any more.

 

Of late I have been shopping for non-consumable items on line and I feel bad about it. The point is I am feeling the pinch too and I get my gear quicker from O.S. on line and significantly cheaper than from my local supplier. Hard times make us all a little selfish.

Mark, mainly Beau Photo and Kerrisdale cameras (41st & Yew store); Leos and Lens and Shutter (Broadway store).

(Beau and Kerrisdale have a good selection of used cameras and their prices are good.)

Pricing for CV products is hard to pin down. When buying from Cameraquest or Photo Village, you are buying direct from the distributor - a very unusual situation, to say the least. Both of these "distributors" were formerly grey market importers of these products & their low prices reflected that even then. Over the course of their short Voigtlander history, Cosina has had about half a dozen different "distributors" in North America. About a year & a half ago, you could pay aout 6+% more for an R2 at B&H & about 17% more at Tamarkin than at CQ or PV - despite the fact that both of the former are in New York & both dealers also sell on line. Where there is a much more established & traditional distribution system with its higher overhead, prices for CV products in Europe are much higher than they are in USA - & it's not just VAT. I have not been able to find CV products at retail dealers anywhere in New England, so there would be no opportunity to support my local dealer for this product line. I know of one dealer in Boston that used to carry them & the prices were higher. So, who knows where the owner of this CV 75/2.5 lens bought it & when and what s/he paid for it at the time. Obviously, both the owner & the dealer appear to be unaware of the on-line prices, but it probably makes for a nice, low-priced alternative to the other Leica mount lenses in the display case even at that asking price.

I wish that there was still a local Leica dealer to support here in northern Miami-Dade County Florida. We're down to one place that I know of that carries a decent stock of pro film, paper and chemicals, and has a used camera and equipment display. It's easier to just save the 20 mile round trip drive through city traffic and order on line or by phone. Here in Florida pros can buy supplies exempt from sales tax so in most cases that's not a concern.

I have supported my local dealer for a few years and many many cameras. The only reason is that he provided me with a liquid market to trade into. If i bought the Leitz Apo Summilonux f/.8, and realized it was not something I needed, I could trade it back in for about 90% of what I paid - against something else.<p>

Yesterday, he refused to take in some gear he sold me less than 3 months ago... at any price. I now support the cheapest online store in the world.<p>

The only reason - liquidity. If it dries up; sit back and watch them disappear.

I'll answer from the perspective of the pro shop. We are a faily large (8 store), retailer with pro outlet in Western Canada. I understand your frustration Mark, but believe me there may be extenuating circumstances. First I'll address the 'incompetent salesperson'. In our city of nearly 1,000,000 we have three post secondary institutions putting out some sort of photography grad. This is traditionally where we've got a lot of our staff...grads who decide they don't want to be working photographers (artist types) but want to work in the field. What we've found in the last couple of years (from the little pre-employment test we give) is that they are completely conversant in Photoshop, but know less and less the basics. We truly, on a regular basis get answers from 2 year grads, on a multiple answer test, that a 135mm lens (35mm format) is a wideangle, or that DX tells the camera that the film is B&W. And it gets worse on questions such as - on a $200 sale how much is the 7% sales tax - one of the answers is $150...and yes, that answer gets regularily chosen. Now for pricing. Everyone is right...to keep (or gain) customers we have to be competitive. For example we feel our prices are competitive, but we do offer 2 week price protection on any verifiable competitor anywhere in Canada, excluding *-bay or online only stores. So firstly, did you ask if they matched prices?...and secondly were you comparing apples to apples...many times we've been asked to match a lower price and then find out the competitor (usually mail order) has stripped the memory card or supplied case out of the box and will charge you extra. But in any case I don't think you should complain too much if you have to pay an extra 10%...if you are going to be a regular customer. One of the things we do for our regulars (for example) is to supply a loaner (okay, usually a piece of used gear) to our customers while their equipment is gone for warranty repair (meaning you are not without a body or lens for a month). Also, if you are not sure about that new $2000 lens your thinking of we''' likely loan it to you for a day or two to try out. And last week I spent the better part of a morning trying to source a long discontinued part for a customers Kreonite processor he bought from me 15 years ago. Try any of that at you local online discount house. YA GETS WHAT YA PAY FOR.

Yes Bob, wonderful, how do you think my (now 12 years old) daughter felt - in an independant camera specialists - when she asked for some Ilford XP2 (because she wanted to do some B&W on her Yashica T5) and was told "we only sell that sort of film to our regular customers, what you need is tourist film for that sort of camera" and presented her with some Kodak Ultra. An online company would not judge you or your camera based on appearance or prejudice to tourists or young females.

 

Unfortunately that type of snottiness and arrogance is only found in some independants. His camera 'stock' was a range of overpriced and dusty P&S cameras with sunfaded cartons in his window. (No doubt for tourists also.)

Bob is absolutely right that you get what you pay for. I have always found that purchasing from a reputable dealer is worth the extra, if, that is, there is any extra cost. I often find equipment in the local shops at prices well under what I see the same item going for on eBay.

 

I also buy mail order when the dealer can't even come close on price, such as 7-Day shop who seem to be selling film to the public for less than the dealer can buy it in (helped by the peculiar taxation rules here in the UK).

 

I don't think there's any right or wrong here, it all comes down to what works for you personally.

I shop at my local photo store. I buy as much as I can from them. It is great to go to a place and touch and see the various products connected to my hobby.

 

You do get an attitude from time to time but if you survived our own Leica forum then you will for sure survive your local photo store ;-)

 

These stores are especially good for beginners or unsuspecting greenhorns who just want to buy a digital snapshot camera. It is much better for them to walk into a store, talk to someone and see the products in person than looking at pictures on line and making a decision.

This is the old "Price vs. Service" debate that goes back years in the photo industry.

 

There is a fantastic Camera Shop in my town that always has great stock, seem to be the first to get everything and offers great knowledge and the ability to try everything out before you buy. They do "loaners" if you camera is in for repair and will rent you anything you want to try, then credit it toward your purchase if you decide to keep it. Overall, they are a fantastic retail operation and I go there often to check gear out.

 

The problem then moves to, "How much extra are you willing to pay?" for these services. I for one, am willing to pay a little bit more as I understand they are certainly entitled to make a living but some of their items are just plain rediculous how over priced they are. I recently looked at an M7 that was tagged at $2300 used when it's available everywhere on the bay for around $1800 and even in on line camera retailers for $1900 or $2000 used. I'm certainly not willing to pay an extra $500 for that outstanding service they give me.

 

I sometimes find myself feeling very bad when I look at items in the Camera shop but end up buying them from B&H for several hundred dollars less. I feel quilty but it's just too much of a difference.

 

If it's close, I don't mind paying a few bucks more but in most cases the difference pays for a flash or another inexpensive lens.

 

Just my two cents for whatever it's worth.

That's right Trevor...only in an independent photo store will you find an ignorant salesperson. That's why you were given a brain Trevor...to choose another camera store at this point...jeeesh, get a life.

JT, have you ever tried to negotiate with them? My local photo store where I get a lot of my chemicals,film and paper is similarly over priced. When I start to quote B&H prices they will usually do a little better to the point when shipping is considered they are only a little more expensive.<p> You can bargain at most stores, even major chains. I've asked for the department manager at Macy's on at least 3 or 4 occasions to get a better price on an item. All it takes is the slightest of damage or washable stain on an item.(On Seinfield remember the red dot on the cashmere sweater George bought) I've also received better prices from the major big box appliance retailers. Many of the major retailers keep their stock out on the floor. When there is an item I want and there is only one box left and it appears to be resealed I ask for an open box discount. I ask if they can get another one (knowing there probably isn't)saying I am willing to pay full price but if this is the only one I want a discount. I usually get it. It's your hard earned money. Don't be shy.

This is a timely subject for me, as I'm going through having to pay Nikon to clean up the

dust INSIDE THE PRISM that my local camera store put there by "cleaning" my CCD on my

Nikon D70. I bought it from this store, and bought the extended warranty. They argue

that there's no way they put the dirt there, and all over the CCD by the way, as they never

open the prism. Guess what, I don't open the prism either.

 

Here's my bottom line on this - I love to be able to walk into my local store and handle

things, and discuss them as well. I was very comfortable at this store, and know several

people by name. However, I only pay more to buy things there for one reason: CUSTOMER

SERVICE. Now that it seems to be gone, so am I. It's a shame, but that's the deal. I'll miss

going in there.

Bob. I dont like to be lectured about where or whom to buy from!

 

(especially from someone biased because they already run a chain of shops like yourself)

 

Do you run that shop I mentioned in Somerset UK? If not then keep out, it did not concern you. I get far better service from good online dealers like ffordes and Robert White who have managed to get their heads around a working definition of SERVICE.

And enough the "get a life" comments please Bob. It does you no credit as a PN 'Hero'.

 

In turn I am sorry that my original comment was addressed to you personally (probably wrong) but you were the only one to put their head above the parapet as a shop owner and tell us how wonderful independant retailers can be. I was simply pointing out one (of many) occasions when they are not.

Hey Trevor, with a statement like...<Unfortunately that type of snottiness and arrogance is only found in some independants>...(from your posting) you greatly expanded your comments from the one little shop you were in...maybe you should try and proof-read some of your comments before hitting the submit button. Bully for you if you've had good service from mail order...but I never singled them out as giving poor service, I just cautioned to make sure you're comparing apples to apples and that the reason you may pay a bit more at an independent shop (though last years PMA <Photo Marketing Association International) refute this, is that you do get more options at after sales service. Again, I'm amazed that you're offended that I would 'lecture' you, yet it's okay for you to, after dealing with one shop it appears, make such an idiotic statement as above.