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Sick of pretty pictures


johnelstad

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I think the issue here is how we see things. At a workshop I attended, we called these pictures "lighthouses at sunset". As we work and grow, we (hopefully) develop a deeper appreciation of what's before us.

 

I still do landscapes and I struggle to see beyond the lighthouse. The lighthouse is flashy and loud. It is what we notice first. It whacks you on the head. It is all most people are interested in (see my post from yesterday).

 

But there is other beauty and meaning which is less obvious and far more subtle. It takes an effort to appreciate it. It dances just beyond our initial vision. We see it and perhaps ignore it because it's not 'good'.

 

I've been thinking about patterns in nature. I'm trying to get away from the lighthouses, and appreciate the smaller, repeating patterns, patterns within patterns, everything affected by everything. Nothing is there just by chance, but everything is there partly by chance.

 

Most of these pictures are, I think, big fat flops. But I do have a few which work. When someone has to ask 'what is that?' or 'how did you see that?', I know I'm on the right road, challenging and encouraging them to stretch thier vision beyond the lighthouse. So yes, I do think that large format, any format, still has the ability to inspire and effect change.

 

Snap!

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If your goal is to create a technical masterpiece, that's cool. On the other hand, if your goal is to explore the outer edges of rationality, that's cool as well. The biggest problem you may have is that you believe the constraints that those in the know may put on you. If I was strong enough I'd be carrying my 8x10 and tripod with me all the time and use it whenever the impulse hit. why not?
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Here are two paragraphs from "On being a Photographer" by David Hurn & Bill Jay.

 

"...Take a mother on a beach watching her child build sand castles. She suddenly sees an expression which tugs at her heart-strings. Without thought, she dips into the picnic basket, aims the camera, and presses the button. The moment has been captured - and will be treasured for the rest of her life.

 

Eighty-five percent of all ingredients of photography are encompassed by this simple act. The mother has an intimate knowledge of the subject; she is the expert of that child. although both are intimately present. The snap is made without concern for technique. These are the ingredients which should be present in the acts of all photographers, no matter how sophisticated, yet they are the very ones which is too often ignored."

 

I've found this example profoundly useful. I hope it does for you too.

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WHen i started to see photography as a major component of my

exsistence , i decided to go to work for an old 65 years old

photographer , to learn the techniques i so much needed .

I worked and learned for three years , i had gathered a lot of

information , but i realized i didn't care to a great exstent of

perfect perpendicular building , i found out that sharpness wasn't

my thing , and that trying to stick to those rules was only keeping

me distant from my own creativity .

To take a picture that wasn't reflecting my own sensitivity was a

waste of time , money , and would give me that horrible sense of

dissatisfaction that you , John, have experienced in your trip .

Of course that feeling , when you are doing commercial , is a

given many times, but when you are doing your own personal

work , the feeling should be the one of going out in a park to play

.You are right , " pretty pictures " at an artistic level have very little

value , you have been given a set of qualities and experiences

that you have to use to forge your own vision .

As somebody stated , it is not the subject matter that counts , but

the way you show it to the world .

As an artist you have the duty of " stretching " the concept of

beauty , to educate in a way , the people to see with that other

eye , that reside in our hearts .

The latest Polansky movie " The pianist " has confirmed this to

me .

There were scenes of orrible distruction and death , but through

the eyes of this man , they were displayed as images of poetic

imagery . Even death can be beautiful .

Weston showed it to us , ALvarez Bravo , Smith , Dorothea Lange

and many others .

It is all in there , John, in your heart .

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John, What is it that you're trying to do with your photography? It sounds like your intention is(was)to produce post card images and that you've succeeded at it should give you at least some satisfaction. For me, LF landscape is very much a here and now kind of thing---each 'worthwhile' print I take is a 'monument' commemorating a place and time where I had the fortitude to uncase my old camera and stand out in the weather to take a photograph of something I have an urge to record on film. I haven't yet been able to convey in the print all the things that made the taking of one of my photographs special to me, but that appears to be my goal. If this is the right approach or not can certainly be debated. Maybe it is the same 'personal' connection(or lack of one) thats the trouble. Consider this: You've got one exposure left. You're at 'Tunnel View' in Yosemite. There is the classic 'Clearing Storm" thing going on and as you're setting up you see that there is a father and his young son in the parking lot and the father is pouring steaming hot cocoa from a thermos bottle into a cup for his son, perhaps thats something you've done yourself at one time and for some reason it 'connects' with you. Do you shoot another 'Clearing Storm' or do you shoot 'Hot Cocoa In Clearing Storm?' OK not the best example, but you get the idea. ...Hope this helps!
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Upon return from overseas trips and the prints have been hatched matched and batched, I find the common perveyor equally interested in nothing images as postcard types. I find there is as long a pause at the simple b&w part bridge, part footpath, part building slab as there is at the 'pretty' picture. The subject must be recognisable and have a main focus but I have been surprised to note that a few cobbles can cobble even the non image conscience foto flicker.
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Have a look at the work of <a href="http://www.clydebutcher.com/">Clyde Butcher</A> in Florida. At some point he earned a sizeable income out of beautiful color landscape photographs that his customers framed and put on their walls. Then he got tired of the emptiness of it, discarded his remaining stock, and started all over on a project that actually ment something to him, and where his work aimed to change the world for the better. The "beauty of it" is that now he has a good income from that project and is making good progress on the changes to the world that he aims for.

<p>

His website is hard to navigate (use google to navigate it!) but the story of his photographic carear <a href="http://www.clydebutcher.com/1971_1979.htm">can be found here </A>

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As someone who spent a good portion of his last vacation to Colorado photographing the steel mill in Pueblo I can fully relate. If I had my druthers (and a lot of free film and free time) I'd be photgraphing rusty bridges, steel mills and old tombstones for months on end. Being an engineer my friends can at least understand this (except the tombstones), but when the time comes to hang one of my shots on their walls it tends to be a shot of the gorges in Ithaca, NY or other "pretty" pictures. Although this may have more to do with their wives than their own tastes.

 

As a fellow Cornellian I second the suggestion to take up drinking, although as a general, not artistic, rule. Gives you something to do in between photos. Maybe that's why they call them shots?

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this is some of what I shoot when I'm sick of pretty pictures...

 

it's not the best format to view them on - one of these days I should actually sort out a web site.

I just put them together on this for someone to see a while back (btw all LF apart from one).

 

http://www.kairosphoto.com/PeripheralVisonX.pdf

 

(ps - it's a largish pdf file)

 

here are a few quotes I turn to every now and then that remind me of why I photograph. I often find myself far too easily seduced by a superficial beauty in thing - prettiness, the sentimental view. I find it much harder to discivoer the deeper beauty in things, or the ambiguities or the cold echoes of reality:

 

"The tree which moves some to tears of joy, is in the eyes of others merely a green thing which stands in the way." William Blake

 

If it�s interesting enough to catch your attention shoot it!

 

�I've finally figured out what's wrong with photography.

It's a one-eyed man looking through a little 'ole.

Now, how much reality can there be in that?" -- David Hockney

 

"There is nothing as mysterious as a fact clearly

described," was how Winogrand put it

 

"I believe that photography loves banal objects. I am sure you know the

fairy tales of Anderson: when the children go to bed the objects come to

life, toys for example. I like to tell stories about inanimate objects,

to relate something mysterious: the seventh side of the dice." -- Josef

Sudek

 

No place is boring, if you've had a good night's sleep and have a pocket full of unexposed film. -Robert Adams,

 

In my view you cannot claim to have seen something until you have photographed it. -Emile Zola

 

I have a burning desire to see what things look like photographed

by me. -Garry Winogrand

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Being relatively new to the LF ranks I do not have this problem yet. Give me ten years to become proficient and fill my personal archives and then I will return to answer this question. In the meantime any of you who have an upbeat and enlightening view of the �Joy�s of Large Format photography� are now encouraged to post your new threads to keep us newbies motivated. :>))

 

Regards,

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Yes I agree that there are many photos out there that are 'pretty'.. and for the most part I am not impressed with many landscapes.

 

Remember that different people will react differently to different material. -Take Yosemite.. This valley was made famous by the work of AA and others through photos and paint. Many may see these images as cliche and over-done. Some would even devalue the importance of AA's work because of the nostalga involved.

 

HOWEVER, Yosemite is part of my very best memories. I first went there when in 4th grade, and it really impressed me. When i see well-done images of Yosemite, it evokes wonderful emotions in me. The same photos will not have any effect on others if they have never been there (or did not have the same experienes). So while Adams work in Yosemite is now a bit cliche, it is excellent still inspiring.

 

Another subject that I see alot of is nudes. I am so tired of seeing poorly posed women in bad lighting.. UGH! It seems like some photographers take nudes for their own voyeristic satisfaction. But they spend no effort making a good photograph. Now I've seen some really piss-poor nudes get a TON of views and sometimes high ratings too! Sometimes i just dont understand the people who rate these photos. But I bet that for many guys, pics of boobs evoke a response (even if it is a hormonal response!) Now dont get me wrong, I love the female body just as much as any guy. But what moves me is a womans expression and a natural, unforced pose (especially candids).

 

So my final point is that just because a subject is cliche or overdone doesnt make it good or bad.. So dont discount a photograph (or artwork) that is creative and technically good.

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Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, one of the most influencial Buddist teachers of the 20th century, once said that while the benefits of meditation are great, we often make too much of the process. He suggested that to meditate, we simply go to a beautiful place and quietly experience it. He said that if we cannot go to such a place, close our eyes and imagine it.

 

Perhaps there is more to pretty pictures than meets the eyes. While not considered sophisticated in the post-modern view of the world, the universal appeal of pretty pictures may be universal for a good reason.

 

Sometimes it's good for us to question and explore. Perhaps to do so requires that we even resist our own nature from time to time especially in art. But we ought to be careful when categorizing pretty pictures as something to outgrow.

 

Good luck on your journey.

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I am very grateful to all who have contributed their thoughts and experiences to this thread. You have given me much to think about and I am encouraged by the generally positive mood of your comments.

 

What I value most about this forum is that it isn't simply a "which ____ is best" venue, but rather a community of thoughtful individuals, each following their chosen path and taking time to help others on theirs.

 

Thanks again.

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Actually this question is for all photography, is it Large, Medium or 35mm. What the f* am I doing and what drives me to make this shot which probably hunderds before have made. For LF users it is often: "in the tripod-prints of Ansel Adams".

 

I ran into this consideration almost a year ago and I must say it has for me been the changeover from nice photoclub kind of pictures to the stage in which I try to give some meaning, message or documentation in my pictures (see my post about 'beyond emotion'). But that doesn't mean I don't do the 'nice' shots anymore. I just started to print them in Palladium, which is an eye-opener.

 

But don't forget that LF is not just to copy AA, I think most LF work by pro's is done in studio's and for portraits! Only amatures think they should try to mimick AA (BTW his best work was made what it is in the darkroom imo). There's a lot of great you can do with LF beside fieldwork. I made a portrait with only one eye sharp...weird.

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What a great thread! At the risk of channeling Brooks Jensen from LensWork magazine, I have found that having a project orientation helps me immensely know what to photograph rather than just going out looking for the pretty picture. My most recent projects have been a personal meditation on death and impermanence in local mausoleums and graveyards and abstract work in a local steam train round house working with metal, light, grease and geometry. I am very pleased with the results not only because of the images, but also for what I learned about these places and myself from doing the project. This way, all my photography has become very meaningful for me and not too dependent on whether others find it pretty or not.

 

I suggest creating a project for yourself that is really interesting to you and the pictures will just flow out of you and break you out of the doldrums. My next project will be about the amazing old hand painted brick wall signs that are still just barely visable on many of or old industrial walls in my town. I can't tell you why I am attracted to them and their textures but I am. I think some lovely photos will result if only I just sink myself into this personal attraction for this subject matter. What weird things interest you?

 

attached is a picture from my death series.

 

Scott

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John: I am on two tracks on this one. First, I don't apologize for pretty pix if they are done well. Second, I took a lesson from Galen Rowell's article on the four levels of photography (www.mountainlight.com) in which he described level I, which is simply shooting what you see with no management of the subject or the process, on up to level IV, which is making a photograph which would not have been made other than through the creative efforts on one particular photographer, and involves such elements as timing, lighting (natural or other), moving or arranging the subject, and image contrast, etc.
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And I am sick of ugly pictures.

 

It seems like many (most?) people think they have to make a "statement" about the current political scene. If not that, they think they have to try to shock me which is increasingly difficult to do. They think it can't be art unless the exquisite detail you can get from photography is used to create an image that I just don't want to look at. The exploitation of children by photographers I find particularly irksome, and it's been going on a long time (yes, I have a problem with people making a good independent living on a starving child's head - Salgado as opposed to a staffer for the local paper).

 

Personally, I think the world needs way more John Sextons and way less Andres Serranos. Give me another Charles Cramer any day, or a George DeWolfe. Please. I want images that contrast to the hectic life I lead - ones that remind me that there is peace and beauty in the world, even if it's not right here, right now. If all I have to look at are images of war, famine, decay, and tragedy, well, pass me the gun and lets end this thing now. What I want, what I need, are images that inspire hope. Beautiful images do indeed inspire hope; they give me a reason to plod on. They are, in fact, delightful, as Ken Lee so articulately put it.

 

I think the world can use a respite from the pain and misery. I think the world needs more beauty and delight, which is what beautiful photographs deliver - that's why so many people want them. The constant reminders, the in-your-face everywhere you turn reminders that there is misery and death in the world, while perhaps well intentioned, are tiresome after a few decades. Beauty, on the other hand, is never tiresome. But maybe that's just me.

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"Those who are at turnmoil within themselves cannot experience

the sense of peace and tranquility from without."

<p>

<p>

Hi John,

<p>

Dig up a book called, "Zen & The Art of Photography." Sorry, but I

can't remember the author's name.

<p>

The first line in this posting accounts for the restlessness of

most people. For most men...this contributes to our "Thrill of the

chase."

<p>

The music of yesterday (Mozart, Beethoven, & others) has given

rise to the music of today (Beatles, Mills & others). Where it goes

tomorrow remains unknown but rest assured that it will continue

to evolve.

<p>

In other words, growth goes through stages and, in order to

grow, you must first have a sense of history (or where your

origins are from).

<p>

The point here is that you had to shoot "the pictures you shot

(pretty/ugly pictures)" in order to move onto the next phase of

your "progress in seeing." Your dilemma indicates that

restlessness has set in and you're in the "need to evolve/grow"

stage.

<p>

As for why I shoot "pretty pictures"... it's because pretty (or ugly)

pictures are ALL in the eyes of the beholder. Remember the old

saying of, "one man's treasure is another man's trash!" I shoot

the pictures I shoot because I enjoy the subject matter I shoot.

<p>

As for the issue of LF in this regard... I shoot LF because it

"forces me to slow down" and take the necessary time to shoot

whatever it is that I'm shooting. Otherwise, I'd take a 35mm

camera and "machine-gun" the subject matter to ensure that I

get at least one good shot out of the roll.

<p>

You're in a good space at this point in your photographic journey.

If you never, ever questioned the process...this would mean you

are stagnant and, as a result...not growing.

<p>

This is one person's perspective...everybody else may have

totally differing opinions on this subject matter.

<p>

Cheers

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  • 3 years later...

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