Perceptol and SFX Discontinued..

Sorry if you have already heard or read this, BUT

 

Ilford told us at our lab that Perceptol and SFX are gone forever.

 

If you like either, buy them now.

 

-Dave

The current Shutterbug states that the sub contractor for all the chemicals, Champion, does not make powders. That means more than Perceptal is gone.

If the bean counters were smart at Kodak, heres a golden chance up the sales of Microdol-X !.

 

Jennifer

Knowing Kodak & bean counters in general....

 

Microdol-X continues to be marketed solely because the bean counters have no knowledge that it even exists. Let's hope their ignorance persists.

 

Concering the above: Doesn't this mean that Ilford ID-11 and Microphen will be history as well? They are both powder-based, after all. ID-11 is no great loss, but Microphen is unique.

These powders are still in the line, no talk of dropping them at all.

However, Ilford has quoted me a "20-75%" increase in powder prices. Almost all films up by about 10%, papers up between 3% and 15%. My terms and shipping free/minimums also changed for the worse.

 

So guys, if you come by my store and see jacked up prices after January, please don't be pissed at me.

 

The good news is that maybe Ilford can some out of this mess at some point. I really have enjoyed selling and using thier products.

 

-Dave

Assuming this is accurate, there are other subcontractors which can make these developers for Ilford, assuming Ilford is willing and/or able.

Perceptol and Microdol are fairly simple formulations, i.e. metol, borax, sodium chloride etc. so it's not difficult to brew your own from raw chemicals. Try D23 plus 30 gm sodium chloride and 4 gm borax.

It would be honorable of Ilford to publish the formulas of any chemicals they discontinue, that nobody wants to license from them.

Chris,

 

That formula you posted is not a substitute for Microdol-X or Perceptol. Both use some sort of anti-silvering compound believed to be some sort of benzophone derivative but its precise identity is not known, or at least not published.

 

Your formula is closer to Microdol (no "X") which is considered an almost certain recipe for dichroic fog with the thin emulsion films of the last 40 years or so.

 

I certainly expected Ilford's prices to increase. Obviously, the "lower price to gain share" model wasn't working well, especially as the $ slid. I think such price increases inevitable for most silver-based photography materials, the bulk of which seem to come from Europe. We can expect Kodak to raise its prices in response, too.

 

I think (read: speculation on my part) the upshot of this is we can imagine even more folks in the USA to abandon silver-based photography in favor of digital. Most of the digital products are produced in Japan (which has been dealing with a strengthening Yen vs. $ for 20+ years and has not seen as rapid a fall in the $'s value over the past couple of years) or China (Won to $ is fixed) and as a result we have not seen significant increases in the cost of these products. In fact, they seem to be declining. This may not be as true for the inks and papers, but according to stuff I was reading in the Wall Street Journal, many expect that the percentage of folks who "print it at home" will decline and inexpensive digital photofinishing will capture most of that market anyway.

 

Don't go nuts, just conjecture on my part, which you are welcome to dismiss.

Ilford DD-X developer is pretty close to Microphen, and is a liquid. I hope that continues. I never liked SFX very much, but of all Ilford's films, I'm surprised this one is discontinued since the original use was as a traffic surveillance film. Maybe the ticket cams have all gone digital too?

Russ,

 

The traffic cams at all toll booths in VA, and MA in the USA have indeed gone digital. Not sure about the others.

 

Microphen has been known to squeeze a bit more speed out of film than DD-X and is considerably (40-50%) cheaper. The "Darkroom Cookbook" has a "Microphen-type" formula but I don't know how well it works.

 

Hopefully, Perceptol is the only casualty.

I have been stocking up on Microphen and Perceptol. I don't use very much Perceptol but I like knowing that I can mix up a fresh batch from the powder at any time. From my experience, Perceptol is similar to Microdol-X and I have some of that around too. It is possible that the Ilford powder chemicals will last longer because they come in separate Part A and Part B packages and some of the chemicals which even in powder form shouldn't stay in contact with each other for too long, do not.

 

Microphen is a nice developer for a variety of films and purposes. It is not the only phenidone type developer and there are others which work in a similar way but which are less expensive than DD-X, Ilford's liquid concentrate analog of Microphen. Clayton makes at least two developers which are similar to Microphen. The first is F60. It is diluted 1:9 or 1:19. I have only used it at 1:9 and it is excellent. Clayton's customer service (askus@claytonchem.com) is also excellent. Clayton also makes a powder form of phenidone developer called CP Film Developer. A 275 gram packet makes a gallon of stock solution which is then diluted 1:1 for use. I am about to test this very soon.

 

Nacco makes a liquid developer called Super 76. It is diluted either 1:2 or 1:4 and gives results which are similar to Clayton F60. It is more expensive because you don't dilute it as much for use and I have not found a good source of technical information on the developer so you have to experiment a little. Edwal FG-7 also contains phenidone and at certain dilutions and with certain films can give results which are similar to Microphen.

 

Some photo.netters are very happy with X-tol and others don't want to bother with it. It also contains phenidone. Lastly, there is the now famous PC-TEA. I have not compared it directly with Microphen but it also contains phenidone. As soon as I test the Clayton CP Film Developer I will post my evaluation. Even if Microphen is discontinued it should be possible to get similar excellent results with Clayton F60. Just make sure to pour it into smaller glass bottles when you get it and it will also have good shelf life.

Jeff-

 

Good list of alternatives. When my current bottle of DD-X is done (could take a while as it isn't my favorite soup) I'll be looking into PC-TEA for those times when Rodinal isn't a great choice for an APX 100 subject or there isn't enough contrast in a scene for Pyrocat-HD to shine with 400TX.

 

And we do benefit from having a Clayton rep (Lowell Huff) as a frequent poster.

 

Life and development of film at EI's above box speed will go on...

I used to get great results from Ilford's ID-11 Plus. Is it still around?

Likewise, I'll be stocking up on Microphen. I've probably said more often on photo.net than anyone cares to hear again how much I like this developer.

 

And I agree with Al that Ilford's low price marketing strategy probably wasn't working. While it gained them loyal followings among many photographers, including schools, it appears their profit margin wasn't enough to keep them solvent. I believe that many of their products are good enough that I'd be willing to pay more for them.

Sorry to ask this, but why do some people get "screamed at" when they say certain products are not available in their area, but not others when they say certain products are "gone forever", without any kind of official evidence? Both perceptol and SFX are listed on Ilford's site as current products.

 

http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/bw.html

Dear David,

 

Ilford has not dropped powder chemicals but nor have they a subcontractor to make them at the moment: liquid chemicals are indeed subcontracted to Champion.

 

The most speed increase I have ever seen with any commercial developer at a standard ISO contrast is from Paterson FX50.

 

Maco Cube 400 is an excellent substitute for SFX, having been designed for the same purpose. SFX is definitely out of production at the moment, though stocks of 135-36 are still good. And it could always re-enter production if demand warrants it.

 

I have a call in to a very senior person at Ilford and will pass on the Party Line as soon as I get it.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

OK: The Ilford Party Line

 

NOTHING has been discontinued, but some things (such as powder chemistry) are currently out of production but may still be in stock. There are two reasons why things may be out of production. One is that new sub-contractors are needed, as for powder chemistry, and the other is because the receivers are understandably concentrating on coating the more popular products.

 

Of course they use the tern 'popular' to mean 'large volume' like HP5 and FP4. Things like Warmtone are extremely popular with those who use them but sell in smaller volumes -- hence less frequent production runs, which are often sold out before they are even coated. Even so, Warmtone is available if you call around a few dealers.

 

The reason they can't drop anything is because under new ownership, there may be new directions -- and those new directions may well involve almost any product.

 

My ear is VERY close to the ground on this and I'll try to post both to the forum and to my own web-site (www.rogerandfrances.com) when I know more.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

>>Both perceptol and SFX are listed on Ilford's site as current products.

 

That means nothing. Ilford hasn't updated its site content for months. A site can remain available for months or years after the entity is dead, depending upon the SLA that was signed with the web hosting entity and the schedule of payments.

 

On balance, though, I agree that folks are too cavalier about declaring products dead and buried. Receivership is a complicated mess and I don't think that anybody should be declaring products alive or dead until we've had some sort of official word from the manufacturer or the creditors. And don't expect that to be prompt - they've other things on their mind. Both employees and creditors, I'm certain, like to get paid.

 

But I think Roger is a reliable source where Ilford is concerned for those who are aware of his background. And having been affiliated with companies that have gone through bankruptcy I can surmise that its going to be a long, bumpy ride for Ilford.

 

Thus far, I'd say they are coping with aplomb. I'm not a frequent user of their products but I'll certainly lend them my moral support as I know many who are.

>>Perceptol, Bromophen und Ilfofix II werden leider nicht mehr produziert. Alle �brigen ILFORD Photochemikalien bleiben weiterhin im Lieferprogramm.

 

MfG

 

Matthias Schneege

ILFORD Imaging GmbH <<

 

An equivalent for Perceptol is offered by Moersch. So this will not be any problem. http://www.moersch-photochemie.de

 

For the SFX you can use the Maco Cube400C or the r3.

I expect some more Ilford products will be discontinued in the near future.

 

Best regards,

 

Robert

Ilford has indeed officially informed us today, by letter, that certain items are gone, and have also quoted us the price increases in question. Can I or ethically should I scan and post this letter?

 

Here is a scary line from the letter:

 

Perceptol Developer and selected other items...Products Discontinued"

(What are 'selected other items'?)

 

ID11 and Microphen Powder Developers...price increase 20-75%

Mulitgrade filters and sets...price increase 40-200%

Antistatic cloths...price increase 50%

 

Sorry guys, but I am not pulling your chain.

 

-Dave

">>Both perceptol and SFX are listed on Ilford's site as current products.

 

That means nothing. Ilford hasn't updated its site content for months. A site can remain available for months or years after the entity is dead, depending upon the SLA that was signed with the web hosting entity and the schedule of payments."

 

That's exactly my point. It makes no sense at all to ask for official announcement about the discontinuation of a product, because most likely there is not going to be one anywhere. Why is it OK to say that films lack contrast if you do not develop them for long enough, solely based on one's own experience, and nobody asks for an official press release about films having more contrast with more development time? Go see for yourself. Same thing applies here. Go see if you can buy the stuff yourself. Strangely enough, SFX and Perceptol are both available in the shop next door, while I could search the whole country without much success for other Ilford products that are supposedly available, and according to others, there are no signs of Ilford's wanting to discontinue these products.

Oliver,

 

I guess it all depends on how Ilford's various subsidiaries or distributors are coping with the problem. Some of the independent distributors (i.e. not subsidiaries of Ilford) may now find themselves in various unpleasant cirumstances. In receivership, Ilford has some measure of protection from creditors and it may be that these distributors are withholding payment from Ilford for any number for reasons or grievances. And Ilford recently enjoyed a run on their products and its possible that inventories haven't been re-stocked.

 

Most of the largest US retailers are continuing to stock all Ilford paper & film products it appears. Chemistry has always been trickier as Ilford doesn't enjoy the market position (at least in the US) that it has for its B&W films and paper - in fact I rarely see anthing other than Ilford Rapid Fixer or DD-X anywhere.