Kiev 4A Overhaul Presentation

I hope that <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation.tcl?

presentation_id=257976">this presentation</a> will encourage and help

those that are keen to overhaul a Kiev rangefinder. Many thanks to

those here that helped guide me through the job. ENJOY!

<p>Let me know if there are any major errors or omissions. I

finished the job a few weeks ago.

Mike -- great job. I could swear that I was looking at a Contax II.

Excellent! This is just what I was looking for - I wanted to turn one of my Kievs into a project camera.

 

Thanks.

Hah! What timing! I have one sitting on my desk just now. I think mine probably has a few bugs in it as well. And sand. And and...

 

Excellent. Thanks.

Well done presentation, Mike, very helpfull.

Great job, Mike. I have it bookmarked already. Not sure whether to leave my

Kiev alone as it seems to be working OK - could be the shutter's a little slow,

but if so it seems to be balanced by a meter that;s a little insensitive. When are

you going to do the '4 proper so everyone can learn how to replace the

selenium cell? <p>

Seriously, well done.

Seriously it wasn't that hard even for someone with fairly limited experience in camera repair but with reasonable mechanical intuition. Just take it slow and make notes. Read Mike's notes on the prewar Contax. Its more than 90% similar. I am certain I could do a second camera in less than half the time now. Just don't break the glue on the outer prism or you could be in trouble like I was! An experienced repairman (Russ) on the Beststuff Russian Camera forum outlined the procedure for fixing the rangefinder optics if the moving or outer prism breaks out. Not fun but I could pass it on by email if anyone ever runs into this. I think the vertical alignment on mine is just a tiny bit off now but I almost need to use a magnifier when focusing on a straight edge to see it. Probably just paranoia. Remember there are no adjustments for the rangefinder in these cameras. If assembled right it works right! The right hand shutter strap looked a little worn but we'll see how it holds up. Fortunately they are easy to get at because of the well-conceived Zeiss design.

 

Honestly Paul I have no interest in the Kiev 4 or any of the metered models. Its a slight improvement cosmetically over the Contax III and Kiev III/3A (which I think are butt ugly) but I'd rather save the space on top for a brightline finder that will tuck into the everready case. The postwar Contax IIIA doesn't look too bad but I'm hesitant to get into one of those without some guidance. If the meter was coupled, I might be more enthusiastic but as is its worse than using a handheld meter like my Gossen Luna Pro IMO. Henry Scherer has some notes on the metering system on his website. It looks like a job for someone with delicate hands. Read his CLA procedure and you will see that my overhaul is relatively simple. His work is incredible.

 

I think the only way I'll have a meter on a Contax is if (a) I get a dirt cheap prewar Contax III for parts or (b) a deal I cannot pass-up on a postwar Contax IIIA.

 

Next I want to do some work on the everready case. Unfortunately it has a 1/4" screw so I don't think its the original for this camera with a 3/8" tripod socket. The interior stitching needs some work, the strap needs replacement and I would like to add snaps to have the option to remove the top completely. There is a link somewhere on the web that has some good info on case restoration.

 

After that, I hope to fix the edge separation in my West German Carl Zeiss Sonnar 50/1.5. $35 was too cheap to pass-up.

Super Job Mike! As a very proud owner of a Kiev 4A with J-8M, your overhaul presentation will be especially valuable and helpful through its and my life. Won't swap, sell or give away that beauty. It was my first Kiev of the 4 series. Initially, I found the speed settings difficulty to read and set, being below and nearly perpendicular to the knurled advance knob, as I have vision problems. I love the feel of the camera and its long base rangefinder, which makes focusing so easy. In future purchases, I opted to switch to the 4AM with speeds on top and to avoid the design flaw that caused take up spool to fall out of camera when back was opened. Later, I learned how to correct that problem. But more important, I got used to reading and setting speeds by holding camera at a specific angle near vertical. At the moment I have dedicated the 4A to my J-9 (2/85 copy of Sonnar, for readers not familiar with abbreviated code))Another reason for sticking with that combo is my 85mm finder fits the camera's shoe on the 4A better than the 4AM. Probably it's its hot shoe that interfers, right? Don't want to alter the finder's shoe height or it will slip off the 4A.

 

Thanks a million for your 4A presentation and many of your tips I've read in various threads since reading Classic Camera forums. I employed many, but never personally acknowledged them to you. Kudos for all your contributions!

 

Les

Lester is there something you do other than to unload upsidedown to prevent the take-up spool from falling out? I use a homemade spool a'la Mike Elek and the biggest problem I have is getting the bottom of it to properly sit in its place in the removable back. I also need to make some shims for both the film and takeup spool as they sit a little high in the camera. The image is right to the edge of the sprockets on the bottom.

 

Isn't rewinding a blast with these cameras? Hold the button and wind and wind and wind and wind and wind...at least its buttery smooth now.

Mike, I totally buy the logic of a non-meter Kiev. If I ever buy a 50s Kiev it will

be meter-less - for a start they look much more attractive. I just didn't fancy

carrying one more piece of kit around. Contrary to what I expected, though, I

found the non-coupled meter easy to use, because I'd use it by looking down

on the camera, and sorting out aperture/exposure before even looking in the

viewfinder. But I probably only used the meter half the time on my first roll. <p>

Are there any good, reasonably reliable, preferably vintage meters that sit in

the accessory shoe? The VC one looks good, but the ones I've handled

seemed a bit flimsy.

Mike, excellent job! I now have a 1968 4a that needs the same treatment, so a big THANK YOU for posting this presentation, and to Mike Elek too for his Contax repair webpages!

Hi Lynn, I got a bug with mine too. Maybe they are standard!

Mike Kovacs,

 

On reflection, it was the spool in the FED 2 that always fell out and I corrected that by gingerly spreading the fork that held take up spool in place below advance knob, which created enough friction to hold the spool in place and not fall out at all. My 4A somehow doesn't

let its spool to fall out. Maybe it's because a p.n friend fixed the rewind mechanism that froze-- the release button couldn't be depressed

 

But there is another fix I did specifically for the 4A's spool that helped for proper alignment and make loading of film easier for a 4A. I got the technique from a photo.netter in a thread, but I can't remember if it was Mike Elek's ingenious idea or another person, but here is the solution that works wonderfully well for for me: It requires a 35mm cassette spool that has no slots in it. I have many old Afga cassettes that are that type. The clever trick is to make a diagonal cut into both sides of the spool with one cut--on the end that has the top hat, which will be at the bottom of the camera. It's important to make the slot go down flush with bottom flange. I used a coping saw and removed burrs with fine sandpaper as instructed in link. I crimp the end of the leader slightly and slide film into the newly created slot after cassette is placed into its chamber under rewind knob. It aligns the film to the sprocket and rides on the rails at the focal plane. I take up the slack by pushing excess film back into cassette. I'm sure somone will identify the site where I got illustrated instructions how to modify the spool as decribed.

Lester it was Mike Elek's idea and I have the same type of take-up spool. I got 5 kodak plastic spools from my lab and made the cut perfect on the first one. I could make some more if someone needs one badly.

 

What's nice with this type is there is no mistaking when you have hit the end of the rewind cycle because it takes some extra force to pull the leader out of the take-up spool. Its all too easy on a knob rewind camera not to go long enough. I have an RC plane starter that has a rubber socket that I could try for motorized rewind! ;) My Nikon F3HP with its motor drive + NiCd booster rewinds 36 exposures in about 6 seconds flat. I could probably half that on the Kiev with some help from the starter! (smell the film? is it nitro-based?)

The contax II / Kiev camera's are fairly simple untill... you have a real problem. I did my first contax II flawlessly, then came the opportunity to do another..with a broken lower shutter curtain spring and the troubles began...first re-sincing the upper shutter curtain can take days, one gear in the wrong direction and the shutter locks up! Second capping is not as straight forward as it seems, on older cameras with a lot of use..shutter tension, tape condition along with general shutter slat alignment all make a difference...

No doubt this is a simplistic presentation to show how to bring a working camera up to perfect shooting condition. I have a lot of respect for those that are up to the task of the serious problems like a broken mainspring.

Mike, thanks a lot, I am glad I found your presentation. A Kiev is on its way to my hands, I bought it on ebay. The description says "All is fully functional!" In case I need help I will follow your presentation. Regards.

I looked at the overhaul page and I have to say I almost (mind you - almost!) wanted to buy a non-working Kiev just to fix. :) More stuff like this! Great.

This is a question actually and a cry for help. I have 2 Kievs one with meter and one without but they both have the same problem. A light leak is affecting the left hand bottom edge of the frame. I have tightened all screws and even tried black tape but to no avail. If I shoot in quick succession the leaks do not appear. If I leave the camera around for a while the marks appear and the right hand edge goes an orange hue.

Does anybody have any suggestions? Otherwise the results are good, especially from the 35mm lens. I would love to fix these cameras. Has anybody else had this problem?<div></div>

I am resubmitting the picture because it does not seem to have loaded correctly. My apologies<div></div>

Just a suggestion, I'm no expert, but if the problem is occurring with both

cameras, are you sure you're refitting the base correctly? Identical light leaks

on both cameras would be quite a coincidence. You can feel both base locks

click into place if they're fittted correctly. And the ever-ready case, of course,

should help with light leaks.

The image on the film plane is upsidedown and inverted. Lower left should translate to a light leak problem in the upper right of the camera. Am I correct here?

 

The suggestion to check the back is a good one. Frequently, I have to fiddle with my camera to get the right side locked down. The take-up spool can wobble a bit and not seat properly in the channel at the bottom of the back.

 

If you're certain this isn't the problem, there is a light seal of black string that is glued along the length of the rear of the camera. However, to fully access it you need to pull the top plate and also the rear shutter cover. If you can find a dark space, shine a small flashlight into the rangefinder window and see if you can detect a leak into the film chamber. Do the same for the viewfinder. If you see something and don't feel up to removing the top plate, maybe you can plug up the leak from inside the film chamber.

 

Also have a look inside the camera body between the lens mount and the shutter to make sure there are no areas that aren't painted dark black. Russian cameras often have a poor internal finish and may need some touching-up with a black marker here and there.

FYI you can see the string I'm talking about <a href="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/2639208-lg.jpg">HERE</a>. You can see on the right where the glue bond broke and the string is out of its channel. Memory was a little foggy...you don't need to remove the shutter cover to access it, just the top plate.

Honestly Paul, they both have the identical fault. I must just be unlucky. I always check that I have closed the bottom plate correctly so it's not that. Thanks very much Mike for your suggestions. I shall investigate these possibilities and let you know if I have any luck. You are rapidly becoming the Oracle for these old cameras. I agree with you BTW about the positioning of the leak. I wondered initially if it could be emanating from the hole occupied by the spindle on the front of the camera possibly caused by the rotting of some sealing strip. In your repairs have you observed any such seal? Thanks again gentlemen.

Hi Ian. I also experienced the same phenomenon with my kiev4a when I was using it in bright sun light. After much investigation, I think it has to do with light deflected by the upper shutter hook. When the shutter is set here is a little hook which holds the shutter until it is released. This little steel part is very reflective indeed, since each time one sets the shutter it touches the shutter part and becomes more metalic. I tried putting a little paint on it but it didn't work. I now use a NDX8 filter to block the light when using it outdoors in bright sunny situations. And no problems I noticed after that.<div></div>