Kiev 4A focus adjustment (lens mount)?

Hi,

 

Wonder if anyone has any experience or pointers with adjusting the

focusing on Kiev 4A...

 

Mine looks like it does not focus to infinity - it's not a VF/RF

problem, but looks like the lens mount is out of whack.

 

Several of my shots with max. aperture lately come out mis-focused

(i.e. plance of focus is *closer* than expected), so I thought it

might be the rangefinder - but it's not...

 

When tested with a "DIY collimator", it looks like the infinity focus

is not OK. The DIY collimator is actually two cameras - Kiev 4A being

tested, with strip of Scotch frosted tape with a pencil mark on the

back, put over the film guide rails, and another (good) camera with a

zoom lens.

When I look through the good camera into the lens on the Kiev (on

infinity), the marking on the tape is not as crisp and clear as it

should be - so, presumably, the infinity focus is not where it should be.

 

I've tested it with Jupiter 8 and Jupiter 12 lens, and the results are

identical. So, it seems that the only plausible explanation is that

the lens mount is to blame - i.e. the lens are not being seated deep

enough into the body.

 

Anyone has any suggestions as to how to handle this? Can the lens

mount be adjusted at all?

 

I mean, I could get another Kiev 4A relatively cheap, but I'd like to

repair this one, if possible...

 

Thanks for any suggestions!

The lens mount is on shims, but it seems unlikely that someone would have added a bunch of extra ones... and the casting with the film guide rails is attached with 4 screws, but similarly it seems that if it was very far out of position you'd have trouble getting the back on. Still, these would be things to check.

 

To reach the lens mount you have to remove the front chrome. All of the screws for this are visible except for one, which is under the leather near the top of the self timer lever. The screws holding the film gate casting are all visible from behind.

<I>

Richard Oleson , aug 31, 2004; 09:11 a.m.</P>

The lens mount is on shims, but it seems unlikely that someone would have added a bunch of extra ones... </P>

</I>

</P>

Thanks, Rick, for the advice. Somehow I don't think this is the problem, either - since the first 3-4 rolls in this particular Kiev 4A came out fine. The 2-3 rolls I shot through it during the last month seem to have this problem, all of a sudden. </P>

Could it be that the film is not pressed enough towards the film guide rails? A problem with pressure plate on the back, perhaps? Or the back got twisted a bit?</P>

But then the infinity test with the collimator and Scotch tape would show that focus is OK, wouldn't it? </P>

I really don't know what might be the problem here... </P>

Thanks, </P>

Denis

the back is pretty solid in those. are you sure that you got a good accurate reading with the collimator? i use a glass plate faced with scotch tape in the film plane to make sure it stays flat, though it is possible to get a good flat surface by stretching tape across the rails. now that i think of that, though, make sure that the tape is actually in the film plane and not on top of a rail that would have been outboard of the film (i don't have a kiev or contax handy but i seem to recall they had dual rails, one for the film to ride on and a second one beyond the edge of the film)

Does the RF show infinity when focused on the moon or that building downtown a mile or so away? Is there any play in the clip that secures the lens in the bayonet? Locically, if the first answer is yes and the second, no, then I would suspect that the helicoid was assembled a thread or two off. But you do not mention whether the helicoid has recently been disassembled. Why don't you put another short roll through it with the camera on a tripod in subdued light and sticks placed at measured distances in front of the camera. Take a shot at each stick with with the lens wide open? This should tell you precisely if the focusing is correct.

<I>

<B>Harry Geron , aug 31, 2004; 12:39 p.m.</B></P>

Does the RF show infinity ... </P>

But you do not mention whether the helicoid has recently been disassembled. Why don't you put another short roll through it with the camera on a tripod in subdued light and sticks placed at measured distances in front of the camera. Take a shot at each stick with with the lens wide open? This should tell you precisely if the focusing is correct.</P>

</I>

 

Been there, done that. The RF has nothing to do with it. I adjusted it for infinity, but still get misfocus.</P>

I need to adjust what the film plane "sees", and the RF will be precisely adjusted after that. </P>

As for the helicoid, I don't think it has been tampered with. On my first rolls, the focus seemed OK - although I did not shoot wide open all the time. </P>

As for the "stick focus test", I did that. On most wide open shots, the focus still seems to be a bit closer than it should be - particularly with Jupiter 12 (35mm) lens. </P>

The lens mount doesn't seem to have any play, but I'm not sure everything is working as it should.</P>

Namely, when I mount the Jupiter 12 lens, I first set the lens mount distance scale (on the body of the camera) to infinity - so that it locks. Then I mount the 35mm lens (also set to infinity) and turn it so that the bayonet clicks in place as it should. However, somewhere along that bayonet travel/turn, I hear a distinct "click" - not always in the same place. And when I take the 35mm lens off, the inner bayonet (lens mount distance scale) is not on infinity, although I set the lens to infinity before taking it off... </P>

I suspect this might have something with errant focusing, too.</P>

Denis

So the rangefinder itself is aligned when set to infinity? This is adjusted by removing the lens mount, collimating the rangefinder with the wheel inside the camera, then reassembling it with the mount. You should also inspect the moving and outer prisms of the rangefinder assembly. If they have broken from their glue bond, they may appear to function but will not be accurate. According to Scherer, this is a common problem with the prewar Contax cameras.

 

The internal bayonet helicoid can only be assembled properly one way, that is so the infinity lock engages when the infinity mark is indicated on the focus scale. This should be obvious if its the problem. It will obviously have no bearing on the 35mm lens.

 

Under each of the 4 screws holding the lens mount, there are brass shim washers. These are factory set and its possible that someone has misplaced/misinstalled them. You could reshim the mount I don't know how a "user" would go about recollimating the mount if this were the case. Be careful if you pull the mount as the shim washers frequently stick to the back of the mount rather than the body and they may fall off.

 

It is unfortunately possible that you have two bad Russian lenses. Does either focus properly on another camera body?

<I>

<B>Mike Kovacs , aug 31, 2004; 01:37 p.m.</B>

So the rangefinder itself is aligned when set to infinity? This is adjusted by removing the lens mount (...) </I> </P>

 

Mike, I adjusted the RF on Kiev by removing the front plate and slightly moving the RF window/prism, as per instructions on Karen Nakamura's Photoetnography site, and another (French/Canadian?) site with illustrations, illustrating the same procedure.</P>

 

What got me thinking is that even after RF adjustment (i.e. making the RF focus OK on infinity when lens is also set on infinity), I get photos which are focused closer than intended/aimed.</P>

 

This led me to check the infinity focus on ground glass (i.e. Scotch tape). However, the comment above on the proper focusing plane of the tape on film guide rails makes me wonder. I should retest everything more precisely and see what happens.</P>

 

As for checking the lens on another body, I don't have another Kiev. But I don't think it's the lens, since first 3-4 rolls I shot with this particular camera and lens set (Jupiter 8 and 12) came out relatively fine. It's the last 2-3 rolls, shot wide open with distance targets where the problem manifested itself in full - more evident with Jupiter 12 (35mm) than with Jupiter 8 (50mm). </P>

 

Also, see my comment above regarding the procedure of mounting Jupiter 12 on the camera and the (inner/body) distance scale (focus ring) behaving strangely with Jupiter 12 mounted... </P>

 

Denis

Look at Zeisscamera.com under the Contax II/III rebuild in detail and make sure that the moving and outer prisms of the rangefinder are still properly glued. Your infinity might look OK but if a prism is loose it will not have the correct horizontal alignment. It may have also been "repaired". Did you catch the photo.net presentation on my Kiev 4A rebuild? My outer prism came off when I cleaned it and by the amount of force applied (gravity of a Q-tip) it was barely hanging on.

 

Your logic with the lenses being fine is flawed if the first rolls were shot at smaller apertures. The depth of field will cover the focusing error regardless of its source, body or lenses.

 

I only own the Jupiter 8M and a Zeiss Sonnar 50/1.5 so I cannot really comment on the 35/2.8 lens issue. It should prevent the moving tab for the infinity mount next to the lens mount from moving downward and releasing the inner bayonet. Even if the inner bayonet did move, I cannot see how this would affect the focus of the 35mm lens.

 

Could you scratch an X in a film, load it and centre the X over the film gate with the back installed? If you use this as a focusing target it eliminates some variables such as film flatness, especially in medium format cameras. You just need to get enough light through the front of the lens to see it.

If I recall correctly, the focus mount always comes away from infinity when you dismount a non-50mm lens, because of the clockwise rotation of the bayonet as you dismount the lens. If you're hearing it come disconnected during focusing, that's another issue but it seems pretty unlikely to me (if it becomes disconnected you should be able to observe that by the RF not following as you turn the lens barrel).

 

Besides which, you seemed to indicate that the infinity lens/film register was off, which would be independent of anything that might be going on with the rangefinder .....

 

:)=

Hello,

the KIEV rangefinder work without lenses. The rangefinder are ok with faraway objekt is infinity.

I think you have a problem with the lens adjustment.

The lens mount design in the KIEV camera and its installation have one very important feature. Lens focusing in the KIEV camera, as a in every camera, is done by an axial shift which is immpossible with a special mount consisting of two or more cylindical tubes connected throug multi-entry threads.

The KIEV 4a and KIEV 4 cameras are equipped with an improved Jupiter 8 lens which a preset diaphragm. The diaphragm's design are very simple. The diaphram tang is fived with the aid of cylindric roller located under the spring. When the tang turns, the roller gets into a corresponding groove on the block mount.

Lens design and dissambly for correct lens in infinity:

To unscrew the block from the lens mount ring, remove the set screw.

In addition, the rear component of the Jupiter 8 lens was placed in the lens mount ring screwed on a thread; in Jupiter 8M, the rear component is one with the main lens mount ring. On the dissampled lens, without extorior mount, a mount block have a spring for adjusted for rangefinder. To remove the rear component, unscrew the fastening nut in the back of the block mount.

That's all infinty from rangefinder and lens are ok and on pictures too.

Good success

peter

Hello Denis, I may be able to help you a bit. By the way I saw your earlier photos taken with the Kiev 4A and they looked fine. Anyway, it seems your rangefinder is out of adjustment. This happens sometimes. So don't worry it should be easy to fix if you are a technical person. First of all take off the front chrome plate and then look for two little screws under the viewfinder optic. Without a lens- put focus to infinity until it locks, and then slighty losen the two screws mentioned earlier. There is a 2mm space to move the optical part to the left and right. Look in the viewfinder and look at a far away object try moving the optic using the little screws until u see it focused. It may be difficult to start but try several times until it is sure. If you need to focus it up/down u can email me I can explain more. Good Luck<div></div>

By the way I used a 1.5 mega pixel digital camera to take a shot of the actual photo (10cmx14cm) to post it on this forum. I don't yet have scanner.

Check to see that the entire front lens group has not become unscrewed. I had a voigtlander CLR that this happened to. Looking at a Jupiter lens, it looks like it is possible with this lens as well. If so, try screwing it back in.