Developing HP5+ at tropical room temperature

Hi all,

 

I am new to developing my own films and would like to get some

opinions before I start.

 

I shoot HP5+ and intend to develop in DDX.

 

I was reading extensively on developing film on the internet but I

couldn't find any information regarding processing film at tropical

temperatures. The water temperature here where I stay is about 28-30

degrees C in the evenings.

 

If I were to develop at such temperatures, I guess I would need to

dilute DDX to either 1:8 or 1:16 to get a more manageable processing time.

 

My questions:

(1) Are there any effects in developing at such temperatures assuming

that development times are adjusted accordingly?

(2) Does anybody has any experience in using DDX at greater than 1:8

dilution?

 

By the way, my downstream process would be to scan the negs using

Nikon 4000 ED.

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read this.

If the processing temps get high enough, the emulsion actually sluffs (SP?) off of the base, but I don't think you're there yet. Another consideration when using high dilutions is minimum stock volume. Any developer reaches a point in dilution where it no longer contains enough active ingredient to develop film. I don't know where that point is with DDX, but it's worth checking. Finally, hot emulsions are more fragile, so handle carefully. Good luck.

Perhaps also think of high dilutions of HC-110 or Ilfotec HC. But you won't get the speed gain of DD-X.

 

You could mix up Kodak's old DK-15 tropical developer formula, but even that has a developing time of 3 minutes at 90 degrees F (32 degrees C). (Moreover, this was back when films required much longer development.)

 

No matter what you use, you will have darned short developing times. You should probably plan on developing in a darkroom, and moving the reel from tank to tank. It will be very hard to get uniform development with a daylight tank, unless you can get 5 minutes or longer developing times.

 

Also, for scanning, you want lower contrast negatives...

I've developed HP5 in hot temps (over 26 C) in various developers. The best results

were in Diafine, everything else was rather unpredictable with unnatural grain and

highlight density. Make sure your wash/fix/stop are about the same temp, otherwise

you can get reticulation (horrible)

This was a long while back and typical to a newspaper darkroom at the time. We used to shoot a syringe full of neat HC110 in a standard single 135 reel stainless steel tank with water at 28/29 degrees C and dev for around 3.5 minutes. Load film, close lid bang and twist. At minute 3 twist. For each stop the film was pushed squirt in another syringe full. Now here's the grub - cannot remember if these syringes where 5 or 10cc units. Need to get to see one again to remember. Not very scientific but it worked and the results were stirling.

Ice would help you a lot if its available! It takes only a small amount of ice to lower 28 degree C water to 20 degrees. Make enough tempered water to mix developer and stop and do the the first wash. 2-5 liters total might do it, depending on how much film you are running. A plain tempered water stop, agitated and changed twice will be fine.

 

Use a liquid fix, and mix it one shot with your tempered water. If that seems wasteful, refrigerate it for a short time to match your developer temperature before you process film.

 

For washing, start with a container of water at your process temperature and pour it in the tank, agitate and repeat. When your tempered water container is half empty, fill the container with ambient temp water. When thats half empty fill again with ambient water. After that third change of water it will be OK to use ambient water alone for the rest of your wash.

 

I've used DDX at 1:9 with good results at normal temperature.

Many B&W films will come off the support or reticulate severely at the temperatures you mention.

 

If you wish to eliminate all problems try this pre-hardener. It is good up to 38 degrees C.

 

formalin 38% 5 ml / liter

 

Sodium Sulfate 100 g/l

 

pH = 9 at 20 deg C. (use NaOH 10% or sulfuric acid 10% to adjust pH)

 

Treat in this prehardener for about 1 - 2 minutes at 38 deg C or lower, preferrably lower depending on your room and water temperatures, and then wash for about 2 mins afterwards in running water at up to 38 deg C.

 

Then you may develop normally at your operating temperature using the time recommended by the mfgr for that temperature. You should not have any reticulation or marking of the film due to the high temperature.

 

Ron Mowrey

Wow! I get more info in a couple of hours than a few days of searching!

 

Thanks!

 

With regards to "pre-hardening", would that also make the interaction between developer and emulsion more difficult, in other words, would the development process be lengthened in any sort of way?

 

I do have access to ice, but I was worried about the lack of temperature control. I don't know if it sounds reasonable, but with an ambient temperature of about 30 deg C, in the ten minutes during development with starting temperature of 20 deg C, the temperature would easily rise to 25+ deg C. I could do some insulation or bath control but that would make the whole process a little tedious. That's the reason why I'm looking into an alternative solution with my current spartan set up. Alternatively, 24 deg C would be a good compromise due to a gentler temperaure gradient, which I had found some starting times for.

In the summer, my tap water temps get a little bit high....I keep a water dispenser (for

drinking) in my Fridge.

 

Through experimentation I have found ratios of Tap/Refrigerated water that gives me a

temp of 68-70F. Usually about 400ml tap + 100ml Fridge.

 

jmp

Hi Guan Leong,

 

I'm in Singapore with water temps same as yours. I use HC110 diluted in water that has been chilled in the fridge to about 15C-18C. Takes 30 minutes for a litre of water in the freezer compartment.

 

As you pour the mix into the tank, the final temp will be about 2C higher. I just leave the tank in a water bath with a bit of ice to maintain temps for the 10 minutes or so the developer takes to work. Use a thermometer to check the temp once or twice during development.

 

Water stop with cool water, fix at room temp, wash at room temp.

 

No problems so far, as far as I can tell with my limited experience.

I use Ilford Perceptol 1+3 with HP5+ all year round, but it's

especially useful in the summer. Those very long 20C developing times

get conveniently short at 26 to 28C. This film/developer combination

gives very sharp, fine grain negatives. Metol developers also give a

small increase in film speed (about 1/3 stop) at 26C and above,

compared to 20C. Kodak Microdol-X or Fuji Microfine should also give

similar results.

 

I have read that it is better to use a developer with a single

developing agent at high temperatures rather than a MQ or PQ type.

The balance between the two agents is apparently disturbed at higher

temperatures. For me, the main thing is MQ or PQ developers develop

too fast to reliably and consistently control.

Guna Leong,

<p>

You might be interested in taking a look at this. This is a Singapore photography message board and this thread discusses a lot of the trialing of testing development at high-ish tap water temperatures.

<p>

<a href="http://www.offstone.com/photo/showthread.php?t=519"><b>Film Developing in Singapore Temperature</b></a>

<p>

regards<br>

Craig / Beijing

When I was travelling sometimes I would fill a few jugs of water and then crank down the AC in the hotel room for a bit. How's that for temperature control? But it's not very energy efficient... Next time I travel I might take two 1 liter jugs of diafine...

G-L

 

I am also in Singapore and use the water out of the tap at 28 Deg.C. all the time. I use D76 diluted 1 part original mix strength to 4 parts water, - 250 ml D 76 and 1 Litre tap water- then do HP5 and Tri X for 10 minutes in a Paterson reel tank agitating 10 sevcs every minute. Same for 35 as 120 as 4 x 5.

 

Plus X gets about 8 min.

 

I use water for stop, but with about 2 teaspoons of vinegar per litre as a one-shot, then fix with normal Ilford or Kodak fixer at 28 deg until it clear- usually less than 2 minutes, then another 2 min.

 

I rinse 5 min in lightly running water, then Kodak HE 1 min, then 1 mi water, then Photoflo.

 

Works great. No reticulation at all. Most current emulsions can take up to 30 Deg but T Max can go to 40- I've tried it.

 

One must be sure that there is about 125 ml equivlent concentrate in the diluted final amount, as there is a minimum needed per 36 exp roll.

 

Cheers

When I wasn't able to control the temperature in my darkroom during the summer to below 80F I gave up on using anything but Diafine. It worked well but limited my choices of films and exposure indices.

 

For example, I could expose Tri-X only at EI 1250 so if I wanted or needed to use a slow film I'd have to go with FP4+ at EI 250. Pan F+ was good right at its nominal speed of 50 in Diafine.

 

Some films, such as TMY, delivered results ranging from peculiar to awful in Diafine.

 

If commercially made Diafine is unavailable in your area you can probably find homebrewed variations that will deliver very comparable results. I've heard of a photography group with members from Singapore and surrounding areas who've become fond of Diafine because it's well suited to the climate. I visited the website once and saw that they've exchanged lots of information about their experiences with the developer and films.

 

Also, there are other two-bath developers that may work for your situation.

Looks like you are well covered with excellent advice.

 

If you do use ice to mix tempered water and want to maintain its temperature during processing, mix the water in a small cooler. In the US the size you want is one that holds a12 pack of beer cans. Or use one of those insulated, round water coolers with a dispenser at the bottom. It will keep 5 liters of water at a constant temperature for hours.

 

Although I don't experience the water temperature that you have, I use the pretempered water method for all my processing. I keep about 5 gallons of water sitting in my darkroom and since the room is heated and cooled the water is usable right away without adjustment most of the year. But if I run out of that supply or if the water supply is very warm, ice is very helpful to make tempered water.

I kept my fridge stocked with bottles of distilled water, and kept more distilled water, bottles of tap water and developer stock solutions outside the fridge. The tap water bottles were because the tap water itself could be up to 50 degC in the afternoon. Keeping bottles of tap water in a cupboard gave me a source of water for washing that was usually around 30 degC.

 

I made working solutions by mixing the correct proportions of fridge-cooled water, uncooled water and uncooled stock. I had a little Excel spreadsheet to do the 3-way calculation for me. This is much more controllable than using ice. Most of the time I aimed to develop at 24 degC, then allowed the temperature to creep up after development. Occasionally I developed at 27 degC and had no problems other than a possible increase in graininess. I used dilute XTOL and D-76 with APX100, APX400 and TMZ.

 

Best, Helen

Prehardening does change development time sometimes. Depends on film and developer. You may have to do an experient or two to get it right. I would start by increasing development time by about 10% over what is recommended by the manufacturer for your particular solution temperature.

 

There used to be a table for this posted somewhere on the internet, but it was a few years ago. I think EK had one posted, as this prehardener was theirs. It was published in magazines way back in the 40s when no film was really hardened.

 

Good luck with whatever method you choose.

 

Ron Mowrey