agustin barrutia Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I got an exellent almost no use Leicaflex SL with Summicron 50 f2. Camera SN 1221971.Lens SN 2321380. Cosmetics are exellent, the lens is clear with no marks. It even has the red original knob. I payed 370 EUROS for it. Is it a good price?. Any recomendations about the camera itself. How would you compare the lens, being one of the first R designs of leica, compared with a SM summicron from the 50?s.The lightmeter takes an average reading of all the frame? or just from the center circle?. Thanks a lot in advance for the advices!. abarrutia@velocom.com.ar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilkins Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 With a camera that old that has seen so little use, you should have it checked out. Parts often deteriorate over time, and little-used cameras are often not maintained, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_salce Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Congratulations Agustin you just bought yourself the best 35mm SLR ever made. As the camera still has the red lens release it is clear that this camera has not been recently CLA'd. If had have been by someone like Sherry Krauter she would have replaced the lens lock with the metal version. Therefore you should invest in a CLA and ensure that the 4 modifications/improvements made to the camera over its production span are attended to. Sherry Krauter will be able to help you. She's the best Leitz technician. The SL is Sherry's favourite SLR. The SL has a great meter. The metering is from the central microprism. You can read a whole lot more about this camera from Doug Herr's website. I don't have the link to DOug's website but some other respondent should be able to assist. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agustin barrutia Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Thanks Mark and Tony. The camera has been serviced by the best Leica technician here in Argentina. So it?s working perfectly. The only drawback is the aged pentaprism that has a pale yellow color. Was it a good deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_salce Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Augustin, The pale yellow colour of the viewfinder means very clearly that the main prism is desilvering. When it was CLA'd by the Argentinian technician it should have been replaced with a new prism which Sherry has or by resilvered prisms which I believe Don Goldberg has. The desilvering prism has no impact on the mechanical workings of the camera but one with a new prism has a much nicer viewfinder. A new prism will set you back $245. I know because I have new prisms in my SL's. I don't know how much resilvered prism's cost. I think they are cheaper. I hope this helps. Best regards, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claude_batmanghelidj Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 HI! I can offer you some advice as well, having done the Leicaflex merry go round. I think your deal was ok. Not the bargain of the century. This is where it gets tough though.<p> I bought my first Leicaflex with a 135 and 50 and a set of extension rings for around $450 off FleaBay. The guy was very very very cool. When I received the camera I sent it off to CRR in Luton for an overhaul. The camera needed a new meter cell, a resilvered prism, new eyepiece, and have the self timer repaired. The cost would have been around $500.00. Shock! I contacted the seller, and he promptly refunded me $250. Talk about a nice guy! Anyway, I did not have the camera repaired, but used the repair cost money to buy a mint black SL again on Fleabay. I sold the first SL (chrome incidentally) in Tokyo for $180.00, much more than it was worth. The black one needed a new take up spool and lens release tab. These are two items that must be replaced if they are still the original plastic. They will break. Now I have a perfect SL. Like new really. <p>Thus, I would surmise that a good condition black SL goes for around $500.00.<p>My advice is to either sell the body, for as much as you can get, and consider the difference the fair cost of the lens. Then save for a good condition SL. Or, if you cannot get enough money for it, then it is probably worth paying the money to have the prism re-silvered. Peter of CRR will do it for a lot less than $245. You should contact him about it.<p>As for the camera, I agree it is the best 35mm SLR ever made. No doubt about it. The problem is they are pretty rare when compared to F, F2 etc. and as you know, Leica lenses are very pricey. So it is much more of a challenge as well as more costly to assemble an outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan_dong1 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Claude, Can you give us more information on Peter of CRR. I would like to use him for repairs on a Leica SL body that I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 2 things.original question,you need prism and plastic spool.."best slr ever made.."i love my M's.I have used all brands professionally.Pentax,Canon,Nikon,Minolta and Leicaflex SLR's.The Leicaflex as introduced and the "S" models are certainly not the "best slr ever made.."That Dear Friends belongs to the Nikon-F.The Leica had few lenses and was easily damaged in small knocks of heavy photojournalism work.True the original Contax SLR made in West Germany(Contarex SE)and the Swiss Alpa were very well made.It was too expensive and lacked the "feel" and "The System" of the Nikon-F.The Nikon F's which I still use from the 70's have had only a few maintenance repairs.My M3 has basically been rebuilt.The Nikons have been used much harder.The Nikkor lenses have never suffered frozen focus mounts or shutters with holes or broken in pieces!OK Toronto is really cold!In fact my original Spotmatic gave better service(Than the Leicalex) and still does with my daughter.I know this is a fan site.Leica lenses are special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_salce Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Calling Douglas Herr, Robert Hitt, Jeff Gluck and others to refute Jason Gold's claim that the Nikon F was and is superior to the Leicaflex SL. Personally I feel the Nikons are not as well put together and the feel and sensory feedback compared to the SL is like chalk and cheese. How do the rest of you feel about this ? Regards, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_rossano Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I have the Leicaflex SL (two of them, actually). While I really like a lot of things about the camera, I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are the best SLR ever made. I also use a Canon F-1 and consider it, in many respects, to be better than the SL. The best things about the Leicaflex SL, IMHO, are the lenses. I have a bunch of them (50 Summicron, 180 Elmarit, 250 Telyt, 280 Telyt-V, 350 Telyt, 400/5.6 and 6.8, 560/5.6 and 6.8) and like the results from all of them. The newer R lenses (only my Summicron is a recent version lens) are known to be even better than the glass I have. On the other hand, there are only four lenses that I ever liked in Canon FD mount (50 Macro, 85/1.2, 135/2, 500/4.5) and I tried a bunch of the others. I sold my Canon 500 because it was redundant, but still have the other three. I have found the F-1 to be just as reliable as the SL, and it has a much better viewfinder; brighter and sharper, with interchangeable focusing screens, too. The big down side to the Canon is that there are very few competent service people left who are willing to touch one. Forget about getting parts from Canon, either, they don't have 'em. Now, if only my R to FD adapter would show up in the mail ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_neuthaler Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Not a great deal, considering desilvering of prism. The lenses are great & relatively cheap, particularly the 2-cam which are perfect for the SL & SL2 -- which is the Leicaflex you should look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Tony I agree: the F2AS is the best mechanical and the F3HP the best electronic SLR :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
really__ Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Leicas are tighter than Canons or Nikons, which leads to problems. They require more maintainence but reward you with greater precision and smoother handling. Like a Porsche, if you use it for everyday driving be prepared to know your mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agustin barrutia Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Thanks people for the advices, it was really informative. I woun?t change the prism, it doesn?t bother me and I think it?s too much money for that small thing. I?m thinking of keeping the camera for everyday use and sell the Nikkormat with all the lenses (I just use the 50mm, so I?m not thinking of gettting new lenses). Does anyone if this early R summicron is as good as a SM from the 50?s ?. Thanks once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
really__ Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The normal and longer R lenses are as good as the M lenses, and since a 50 for the SL was made in the late 1960s or later, it would be better than anything from the 1950s. The R wide angles may not be as good as the equivilant M lenses because of the design compromises required to make a wide angle lens focus on a SLR design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishik_tuna Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 i own two leicaflex sl cameras...they are built like tanks.. the little red lens tab may break off..however, if it hasn't broken off by now, it may be fine..the film takeup spool (originally black plastic) tends to crack and fall aprt...te grey plastic replacement fixs this problem. the meter uses battery cells that are no longer readily available..they are a wacky voltage...get the meter adjusted to accept 1.5 volt batteries which are plentiful.the vulcanite tends to start to peel up on the prism area (the small strip across the front), why here, i don't know. a resilvered prism can be had for about $80.00 plus installation labor...DAG just did this for me. i've used my SL for 35 years non-stop....sent it in for its first CLA this year (no particular reason..justthought it might be prudent!). certainly not a great price in the U.S., elsewhere, it would depend on the local market. It should have been CLA'd recently at that price..if not, then it was overpriced. the camera is worth what you feel it is worth....the 90 mm lense is magical when it comes to portrait work..i enjoy my 21 mm lens the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claude_batmanghelidj Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 As I said, you can get many other SLRs and have a more reliable and cheaper system perhaps, but there really is something to the SL. It really is a reflex Leica M. And as for your query about the Summicron compared to a 50's screw lens, hey, the Summicron can beat any lens out there, including the newest designs. It is that good. I actually prefer these SLs, and their lenses to the M series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug herr Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 No question the Nikon F and F2 are among the best mechanical 35mm SLR cameras ever made; likewise the Canon F-1 and Leicaflex SL. I prefer the viewfinder, smooth feel and sensory feedback of the SL. I wouldn't say that any one is "the best", they all have their strengths and weaknesses. One of the standout features of the SL is excellent support from the manufacturer even 30+ years after the last one was made. I'm also finding that they're easy to repair and service, and the access to most Leica-R lenses doesn't hurt either. It's my favorite 35mm SLR. My review of the SL is at <A HREF="http://www.wildlightphoto.com/leica/sl.html" target="_blank">http://www.wildlightphoto.com/leica/sl.html</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben z Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The SL viewing screen is awesomely bright compared to any other SLR of the day, and the spotmeter, a tremendously effective tool in the hands of a knowledgable photographer, was a remarkable innovation. Only one other maker, Mamiya-Sekor, offered a spotmeter (actually they went one better and had switchable integral and spotmetering like the R6). The SL is a well-built camera according to most repairmen I've talked with, but no more so than the other leading models of its day, yet it was much more expensive. There is no arguing that most of the other makers had more extensive systems. Things like removable prizms and 250-exposure backs I think are overrated in terms of how many people actually took advantage of them. Leica was very late introducting fast prime lenses though, which definitely hurt them in the days of slower film. Leica did not have a 50 Summilux-R until 1969 vs Nikon had a 58/1.4 in '59, 50/1.4 in '62 and 55/1.2 in '67. Leica's 35 Summilux-R came in 1984, Nikon's in 1971. Leica to this day does not have a 28/2, Nikon had one in 1977. To the working professional I suspect that getting a salable shot was more important that a few line pairs on a test chart or "that Leica glow". There is no question that most Leicaflexes today are either still fully operational or in need of just a CLA. At most, some might need meter cells or a new prizm. The same can be said for many other cameras of the same age. The difference is that to repair those others requires picking used parts off a dead one, while Leicaflex parts are mostly still available in unused condition. As such, a repaired Leicaflex would seem to have an edge over the others. Mainly I think it's a matter of taste, just as it is choosing a new camera. Personally I can not use a Leicaflex because I need to fit a correction diopter and still use my glasses. The Leicaflexes (and many other brands too, but not Nikon) need to fit the diopter over the standard eyepiece, then I can't see the whole finder. A non-issue to most, but a crucial issue to me. It's why I had to give up using my Spotmatics. As one of my college professors used to say "the devil's in the detail". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_clark Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 C'mon, chaps...the Pentax LX was the best mechanical AND the best electronic SLR ever built. Bright, clear viewfinder, accurate metering, solid, reliable, dust and water sealed, and no bigger or heavier than an M Leica. Plus access to all those SMC lenses (their top primes rated better overall than Leica R's on Photodo). Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_simmons Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Once I tried a Leicaflex SL, I sold my Nikon F, simple as that. And that was a very easy decision to make. Half the decision was the 50mm Summicron, the sharpest lens I've ever owned, and the other half was the viewfinder. As others have said the metering area is the central circle with the microprism. What lots of folks don't know is that the rest of the screen, which looks like matte glass, is actually a microprism in which the microprisms are so small that they don't appear to be prisms. But the effect when focussing is that the image just snaps into focus with a clarity that I've never experienced on any normal viewing screen. It's as if the Leica M designers decided that only a focussing system that worked with the certainty of a rangefinder would be good enough. As others have said, the ergonomics of the camera are great too. Everything is tight, gives excellent feedback, and for me anyway, falls to hand just perfectly. That's subjective, of course. I'd say put up with the prism as it is for now, knowing that you can replace it when you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 It seems for most users here the Leicaflex is great.I applaud Leica making parts available.The Japanese tend to let their products die! I merely said as a working photojournalist, Nikon and Canon offered more lens varieties.Maybe not as good but sufficient.The Leicaflexes I worked with were easily put out of whack.The Pentax LX is a great idea but due to a few lousy design moments with plastic,the mirror can become a problem,NOT repairable.No spares.I agree Super Takumar lenses are wonderful but the viewfinder of even a K1000/Spotmatic is at least 3 stops darker than a Canon AE-1P.The lenses of Leicaflex are really special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_clark Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 The Leicaflex is a delightful camera to operate and look through, but the weight... My response was a little tongue in cheek - not that I don't think the LX is a superb camera, but of course it could have been improved - too bad Pentax didn't bother. "The Pentax LX is a great idea but due to a few lousy design moments with plastic,the mirror can become a problem,NOT repairable." What do you mean here? There is the famous sticky mirror, of course, a lot cheaper to fix incidentally than a de-silvering Leicaflex prism, and only to do with a gummy mirror-rest cushion. What is this purported mirror problem to do with plastic parts that is irrepairable? I've compared the Leicaflex viewfinder with the LX with the latest screen and both are remarkable, the best in the business. Why make comparisons with the K1000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug_nelson1 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 My Leicaflex SL is worthless to a collector, as the previous owner botched a Social Security Number engraving disastrously. Even so, the body was $250. Go easy on your lens release knob. If it hasn't broken by now, it may not, but be looking for a metal one. You can replace it yourself easily. Yellowing may be an early stage of prism desilvering; brown spots are the silver actually flaking off. The yellow seems to act as a yellow filter, maybe enhancing focusing. Even yellowed, the viewfinder brightness compares well with Canon F-1's. My favorite lens is the 28 f2.8, the old one with the frankenstein lugs to hold the shade. Don't buy the overpriced Leica shade, just get the Hama version from B&H PhotoVideo and a 48-to-49 step-up ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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