Jump to content

Part of the Solution to Ratings Abuse


bens

Recommended Posts

go to your workplace, go to the list of people you are interested in

or are interested in you, and start writing comments on their

photos. if you don't have such a list, create one. what goes

around will come around. this endless discussion about ratings

abuse is itself overrated; trp visibility is not the only way to

obtain feedback; do the hard work of intelligently commenting on

others' photos -- you can even take more than 10 or 15 seconds a

photo! -- and you will reap reward. i'm living proof. a fair to

middlin' hobbyist photographer, but receiving substantial amounts of

feedback from photo.net friends.

 

and site managers, are there any plans for encouraging,

incentivizing comments in 2005 within the present system? would

appreciate knowing if anything is in the works. thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

respectfully, why do you post that answer here? (Comment by moderator: Ben is referring to a deleted post) my point is that encouraging comments on photos will bring the feedback to posters that makes ratings abuses less important. i see you have rated over 1,000 photos but commented on only 19. i encourage you to comment more on photos more than complaining about ratings abuses -- its invaluable to hear the thoughts of people interested in viewing works here to those of us posting photos. please don't post complaints about ratings in this thread. it is a cruel irony to read it here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i endorse bens prescription and wish i had time on my hands to do what he recommends

 

but another way we can drum up photo discussions is by means of a popular ALERT SYSTEM to call members attention to anothers photo that a particular member feels is not getting the attention it deserves for whatever reason

 

i am working out the kinks and details to an alert system i call IMAGE-ON THIS (as in 'imagine this'). the basic idea would be to raise a call (sort of a 'here ye, here ye') to point members to a particular photograph. the photo would be identified by an HTML link to its PN page. members would click on the link and decide individually whether they want to discuss, rate, and or ignore the photo altogether. of course it would be expected that the member who calls the alert would be first to include a comment in the PN photo page, perhaps also explaining why IMAGE-ON THIS was called there

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ben, you are right on target when you mention a list of interesting people in one's workspace. I've found for a long time that's the best way to get good, honest critiques and rates. The non-paying trolls do slip in & wreak havoc though, as chronically brought up here. Oops! I'm not supposed to touch that subject!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i am not seeking site endorsement or its imprimatur per se. the IMAGE-ON THIS system would work akin to the NO WORDS system in that it would be up to individuals to initiate the simple action I described. it would however be useful at some point for the site to sanction a FORUM within which the IMAGE-ON THIS calls would occur since these could be disruptive and/or controversial if they occur in volume within the site feedback forum (though this would be the logical place to start it, within one or more continuiing threads)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ben,

 

I'd be curious too. I agree with you thinking and hope to see some changes. But again, I'll not hold my breath. I'd hate to turn blue. The administrators are busy with other more pressing matters. (cough...cough... deletions... cough...)

 

By the way, it's good to see you my friend and hope your holidays went well.

 

Kind Regards,

Lisa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ben and others - your approach is all wrong. you keep asking the site to set up something FOR YOU that itself has no interest doing. why not simply not ask it for anything? rather, why not SIMPLY DO IT ? design a self-doable idea that members can do. my modest proposal is a SIMPLY DO IT sort of thing that once the method is worked out, we just simply do it. once it gets going, the site will want to get in on the action and probably assist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

spaghetti, i agree with your approach of doing it ourselves. you know better than anyone that the site managers have not responded to the feedback i've given in the past four months about incentivizing comments. this thread is a modest effort to encourage others to just do it by way of comments, though admittedly i still would like to know if incentivizing comments is anywhere on the site's list of things to do and am completely puzzled why they never respond, but rise to the bait on virtually every ratings thread. anyway, please think of me when you roll your stuff out.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'M NEW TO THE SYSTEM AND LOADED UP MY SITE THIS WEEK AND PUT SOME VERY GOOD PICTURES UP FOR EVALUATION. WHEN I GET GREAT COMMENTS AND HIGH SCORE THAT ARE DILUTED BY SOMEONE'S 1'S AND 2'S ON GREAT PICTURES I WOUNDER WHAT SYSTEM THEY ARE USING. THE RESULT IS LOWERING MY SCORES ON BETTER THAT AVERAGE PICTURES TO A POINT THAT I KNOW WHAT IS A GOOD PICTURE AND SOMEONE IS JUST MESSING WITH THE PROGRAM. IT IS JUST LIKE SPAM, ADWARE, SPYWARE, AND VIRUSES SCREWING UP A GOOD THING. SINCE ALL OUR SCORES ARE RECORDED AND TALLIED IT WOULD BE EASY TO TRACK THE NUT CASES AND BAN THEM FROM THE SYSTEM. WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

is it just me, or does someone else get the idea that there's some big cosmic joke going on here? here we have a site that enables thousands of people around the entire world -- THE ENTIRE WORLD -- to share their photos and their thoughts about these photos with each other with so little effort it never ceases to be breathtaking, and instead of figuring out how to best provide feedback to each other, we obsess about these ridiculous number ratings. remarkable.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve, if you joined photo.net for "feedback", I don't see how 7/7 ratings on other people's photos have any impact on YOUR feedback at all. Ditto, the 1 and 2 ratings, which if they aren't deleted automatically by the software, you can simply ignore. These problems somewhat affect the fairness of the Gallery as a "competition" or "contest", but that isn't the same as "feedback", and in any case the Gallery isn't presented as a competition.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve, don't they call that "screaming" when you capitalize all the letters? Don't worry about the low rates, just a temporary phenomenon initiated by some goofs that want to mess with the fragile and delicate egoes of a lot of photogs here on PN. Fear not, it will pass and some new thing will pop up to make people hysterical. For me, it has gotten to the point where reading what people have to say in the forums is more interesting and entertaining than looking at photos.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

<blockquote>

<b>Ben S Photo.net Patron, jan 07, 2005; 05:52 p.m.</b><br/>

spaghetti, i agree with your approach of doing it ourselves. you know better than anyone

that the site managers have not responded to the feedback i've given in the past four

months about incentivizing comments.

</blockquote>

 

<p>Ben -- you can't assume that just because no one has implemented your 'solution'

that the administrators don't care and/or don't try. It's worth keeping in mind that:</p>

 

<ul>

<li>The number of people able to work on the codebase itself is (I believe) less than three.

Total.</li>

<li>None of those people are being paid to do so (to the best of my knowledge, your

subscription covers little more than the bandwidth and storage costs of the site itself... I

hope that Brian and the others periodically splash out subscription money on a case of

beer and a pizza), so they all have full-time jobs on top of their responsibilities to the

photo.net community</li>

<li>It's never as easy as "just add this one option and everything will be better" -- every

change to the site can affect the site's reliability (server downtime from database crash),

performance (more hits against the database), and usability (redesigning the user interface

to fit the new 'thing'). I've done this sort of thing myself for my company's web presence

-- it was a much simpler site than this and it was nigh on full-time for two years for

me.</li>

<li>For historical reasons the codebase supporting this site is a bear -- I volunteered to

help out and am still trying to get the database to compile on any machines that I own. So

if you have a fast x86 machine with some big drives that you'd like to send me this would

help out a lot as all of my machines have small drives and aging RISC processors. That the

site runs as well as it does is a testament to how hard everyone works.</li>

</ul>

 

<p>My point is really that, as with the ratings queue, don't take it badly. I'm sure that they

would like to respond to everyone, but I'd guess that their wives/husbands/children have

some unreasonable expectations of their time. I'd imagine that the reason that Brian

responded to Steve and not to you is that he has a fairly canned response to that type of

message and can do it in five seconds flat without needing to engage his brain in the least.

That yours requires enough brain activity to avoid a partial response is an indication of the

complexity of the problem. ;) </p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

jon, thanks for your message, wish i could tell you the computer is on the way, but, well, can't. i appreciate what you've said and don't expect anything to necessarily be implemented,since i have no idea what the priorities of the site's management are. but having started perhaps 4 threads in the past 5 months containing more than a dozen suggestions, i am mystified that no one, including brian, has responded TO THE THREADS. That includes here, where i'm just asking if there are ANY plans, not even suggesting something.

 

as a frequent poster of photos, i can never get enough feedback of course. i'll admit that. and i may rely too much on this site, where i have easily learned about half of what i know about photography, having first picked up a camera in earnest about four years ago.

 

but i've mulled on the changes i see on the site over the past year. at 48 i've been around the block a few times. i've been a part of several organizations large and small that have evolved dramatically, similarly to here. every organization has a life cycle, and the evolution requires changes. i've tried to encourage comments because the over-emphasis on ratings, i've thought, can lead to a colder, more alienating environment.

 

as i've thought about it, though, i admit, i've come to see the wisdom of ratings more from the site's point of view. from a poster's point of view, maximizing feedback to themselves is the primary goal. to the site, maximizing visits and views overall would seem to be the obvious primary goal. requiring more work of those visiting, like making comments, can cut down on views, and i'm guessing its the reason making comments is not a priority. furthermore, emphasizing ratings has led to an internalization of the use of the site by both photo posters and viewers. people who have trouble expressing themselves in english can appoint numbers with much greater ease. the problem is reconciling the needs of a stable base of membership that posts photos that have a certain sense of entitlement, perhaps overly so, perhaps including me for my measly 25 bucks, to ensure a steady stream of quality images that in turn draws people to the site. and those people are constantly on the prowl for feedback and recognition. that is the major tension i see in these threads.

 

i totally support the internationalization of the site. i totally support large amounts of viewers, including people who do not post photos themselves. the problem is that the easy access has its dark sides. it leads to a lot more alienated visitors who callously rate and comment. and it feeds to the lowest common denominator. for example, this site is becoming more and more dependent on mediocire nudes to draw viewership. i recently did an informal survey over an evening of the number of ratings given to nudes compared to the other categories of photos. nudes received four times as many ratings in that period of time from any other category, and in many cases far more. and there are the issues of mate rating and ratings abuse to contend with.

 

i think part of the solution lies in evolving the methods of feedback to meet the needs of the viewership/membership photo.net wants to encourage. i've suggested, for example, that there be a checklist of "comments" that can be made for photos that are not part of ratings, which could make it easier for people to give meaningful feedback if they are uncomfortable leaving text comments. i've given a much longer lists of suggestions as well. i don't expect the site to implement my suggestions. but the site's management has not responded to any of the threads i've started in the last four or five months, such "thanks, we're contemplating our own ideas on the subject," which is discouraging. brian's message above is the latest in that disappointment. be nice to know that this subject matter is on the site's radar screen, at a minimum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, photo.net shouldn't be about a circle of friends cross-commenting on each other's images...that EXACTLY what a major port of mate-rating is about, and frankly would result in boring images, like a card game where only a certain number of cards are shared by an isolated group. Doesn't sound fun or interesting to me.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

john, i agree, although rating and commenting are two distinctly different functions. cross-commenting can be valuable and do not harm. but encouraging comments beyond friends also gives a more objective view of an image to the maker, and opens the site up to people wanting to comment more. im trying to encourage the site to understand that enabling the giving of meaningful feedback -- including but beyond ratings -- as easy as possible in as many ways as possible for as many people as possible is part of the solution.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

the rating thing is a bit of a joke really - i don't take it seriously at all - so many differnet people, so many different visions and so many different categories! just go with the flow and enjoy the commets and the high ratings, ignore the bad ones and laugh :)

 

www.charlotteaberg.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...