Ilford Rapid Fix: Straight and reuse or diluted one-shot?

I am wondering if you guys reccomend several runs with a batch of

straight fixer or diluting it and using it for one shot? How many

reuses of straight OR how diluted? Do some films exhaust fixer

faster than others? I am developing some HP5 and Delta 100(fixer

eater?).

I dilute Ilford Rapid Fixer 1:4 for film and 1:9 for paper. Sometimes I use Nacco Check to see if the paper fixer is still good after a certain number of prints. I always discard the paper fixer after I use it once. For film, at 1:4, I would mix up a quart of working solution at a time. Each time I develop a roll I tear off the leader in the changing bag and use it to test the fixer. If it takes more than about 3 minutes to clear the film I throw it out and mix up a new batch. The rule most people follow is to fix for twice the clearing time.

Jeff...

Are you stating that you DO reuse the film fixer or just test each time before one shot use?

I have never heard of using fixer undiluted. I'm not saying it can't be done. However, for film at least, the idea is to dilute it (1+4 for Ilford Rapid Fixer) and then re-use it several times. (I also re-use paper fixer (also Ilford Rapid Fixer at 1+4), but I'm not as confident on the science of that.)

 

How many uses? Well, different people have different experiences and ideas, and it depends in part on the film, but I mix up a developing tank's worth (600 ml or 1000 ml, depending on the tank), use it five times for five minutes each time, store it in an old, washed-out hydrogen peroxide bottle in between, and throw it away after five uses. Supposedly it also goes bad over time. I probably wouldn't use diluted fixer that was more than, say, three months old. Based on my limited research and minimal testing, this procedure appears to be safe to conservative with standard films.

 

There are several commercial products for testing fixer, and the film-leader-clearing bit works too, as long as you know how long fresh fixer takes to clear the leader, and toss the fixer when it takes, depending on who you ask, 50% longer, twice as long, or more than a couple of minutes.

The only time that I have used rapid fixer one shot was in a class room setting and it made things much simpler. For my home dark room use I mix Ilford rapid fix 1:4. I mix a 32 oz bottle and label it for film and date it. I mix a seperate 64 oz. bottle and label it for paper and date it. Before each session I test the fixer (paper or film) with a piece of film leader and note clearing time. If it is more than two minutes I pitch the fixer and mix a new batch. If I am having a long print session I will periodically retest the paper fixer to make sure the fixer is not close to exhaustion.

 

As long as the fixer is clearing film quickly I pour it back in the bottle and save it for the next session. The only time I get rid of it when it is still active is if I have not been printing or developing much and the working solution gets to be 3-4 months old.

 

I do not think you ever want to use the rapid fixer straight. I have never tried it but I can not imagine it would be very good for your film. I am sure there are some on this site who has tried this and can let us know the results but I would stick to Ilford's recommeded dilution of 1:4.

I heard that fixer may slow down if it is too concentrated. I often use it concentrated by adding it to the developer at the end of the developing time. It is then a 1 shot affair, of course, and it is not really concentrated in the tank, but it is not only handy but makes the developing time a little more accurate for testing purposes, serving as both stop and fix. Most concentrates will work in this fashion at 8:1, and if there is not enough room in your tank for another 1/8 of fixer, dump a little before you add it.

There was some research done that showed that there was an optimum concentration for fixer and that higher concentrations slowed the fixing down, but it was done on dry film. When, after those results had been well publicised, similar tests were made on wet film the 'dip' in the time vs concentration curve went away and time reduced as concentration increased. The reason for the different results is obvious, at least with the benefit of hindsight.

 

However, the capacity limit of fixer is probably set as much by the silver concentration as by the amount of available thiosulphate.

 

I have no personal experience of using dilute fixer (ie greater dilutions than the manufacturers' recommendations) one-shot, but I do know that some people do it that way. The most economical and sure way that I have experience of is two-bath fixing. This is not a recent or uncommon technique: it has been around for over a hundred years.

 

Best,

Helen

I'll second two-bath fixing; it's also recommended by Ilford in the documentation for Rapid Fixer.

Fixer doesn't work unless it is diluted. I use Ilford Hypam/Rapid Fixer diluted 1+4. I use the two-step method to ensure full fixing of the negs or paper. Both fixers are mixed at 1+4 and the bottles labelled Fixer 1 and Fixer 2. I fix in Fixer 1, then rinse the film, then fix for half as long in Fixer 2. When Fixer 1 reaches exhaustion (as determined by the number of films fixed, i.e. 24 per litre) then it is discarded and Fixer 2 poured into Fixer 1 bottle. A new batch of Fixer 2 is then mixed.

I dilute Ilford Rapid fixer 1+4 to make a litre of working strength solution, which I reuse. Usually I get 30 rolls through it (depending what they are). I inspect the film immediately after fixing and give it a couple of minutes more if needed, then use fresh fixer next time.

Thanks for all the advice. My school darkroom's attendant had us using fixer straight from the bottle for a long time and it worked just fine, if expensive. We always use one-shot at school. I started putting a 1:4 ratio into the fixer container after I tested it a couple of times, and after the darkroom was going neglected for a while. Again, thanks for the help.

I do re-use the 1:4 fixer working solution but I test it each time I develop a roll of film by using the leader. The concentrate is meant to be used with a 1:4 dilution for film. This is not an extra dilution. It is the normal dilution. If you will be making a large number of prints then you can use the 1:4 dilution for paper too. If I am making a dozen or so 8X10 prints on RC paper like Kodak Polymax II RC or Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe then 40 oz. of the 1:9 working solution in an 8X10 tray is adequate.

Undiluted Ilford Hypam rapid fixer will destroy any image on film emulsion. Presumably it will have the same effect on film. It appears to resemble bleaching, tho' I don't know the actual physical process invovolved.

 

Try it on a scrap of unimportant developed film that has been fixed normally for a minute or less (to prevent light exposure from affecting the results). Place a drop or two or undiluted rapid fixer concentrate on the emulsion side of the film.

 

It's best to use fixer at the manufacturer's recommended dilutions, checking periodically to determine whether it's still fresh enough to continue fixing film and/or paper adequately.

 

In my experience T-Max films (TMX, TMY, TMZ) will exhaust fixer more rapidly than will other films, regardless of the strength at which the fixer is prepared.

Just for the record: I used fixer undiluted for 100+ rolls and no negative affects on the images were apparent. Not that I would advise it; it uses up alot of chemicals. Just for the record.

Jeffrey:

 

Chris Waller is (all but) spot-on with the advice for two stage fixing: The only way I differ with him is that I use the second stage fixer as a replenisher for the first stage bath liquid.

 

Helen is on the right track by mentioning silver [halide] concentration as well as available thiosulfate.

 

Please see the article I reposted here on Photo.Net entitled "Why two step fixing is a Really Good Thing" at http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007dXZ