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going to MF


katie h.

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After doing several informal bridal portraits sessions on 35mm, I've

finally decided that if I'm going to be serious about wedding

photography, I NEED a medium format camera. Please help! I've used a

TLR but that's about the length of my experience with MF.

 

I don't have alot of money ($600-800) so I was considering a used

Mamiya 645 with a 70 or 80mm lens to start with. All manual setting

are fine with me and I have a meter, but I'm a little concerned

about being able to focus in low light. Are the viewing screens on

Mamiyas usually pretty bright?

 

KEH said the 70mm is a leaf shutter. Would that be a better choice

than the 80mm non-leaf? I will be shooting bridal portraits in

people's living rooms because I don't have a studio yet. Will 70mm

be wide enough to get a full length portrait? If I get a 55mm will

there be apparent distortion?

 

I've got a lot to learn and I'd appreciate anyones suggestions on

things to look for when purchasing a MF system. Thanks, Katie

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What's wrong with the TLR? I used a Mamiya C330f for more than 20 years shooting weddings. Quirky, but completely workable, and cheap.

 

Mamiya viewing screens are not particularly bright. You might need to get a Brightscreen or Maxwell screen, which adds to the amount of money you will need to spend (they run anywhere from $150 to $300 and up). Better would be to double check your viewfinder focusing against the focus scale and/or learn to accurately estimate distances.

 

Leaf shutters are better if you need to use flash with faster shutter speeds (like you would outdoors in bright sun). With the 80mm non-leaf, you will be limited to 1/60th or so top sync speed with flash.

 

The 70mm would be wide enough for a full length bridal portrait if you have about 12-15 feet minimum to work with, but it won't get the train of the gown, and some living rooms are smaller than that or don't have enough "backing up space" to work. A 55mm would work fine as long as you don't attempt to shoot 1/2 lengths and close-ups with it--full lengths, especially with full train, are fine as long as you keep the camera level lower, like near waist height. When you need to shoot the 1/2 lengths and close-ups, change to the normal lens or telephoto.

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Weddings? You'll find the (recently discontinued but still available new) Bronica ETRSi to

be a great choice, because the leaf shutter lets you sync your flash at any speed. Great

cameras, built like tanks, used by wedding photographers (in evolving models) for

decades.

 

You can pick up a used ETRSi setup for between $300-$625 (depending on condition)

from reputable shops like KEH.com. Do a search on these cameras, put one in your

hand, and decide for yourself.

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Thanks for the great information. The TLR I have is a Seagull and it is very soft on the edges for some reason. I think I would like handling an SLR type better. I plan on using it in studio type situations.

I'll definately check out the Bronica because a bright viewing screen is very important to me. Sounds like a 55mm and a 105mm might be a good start? Still researching...

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I personally don't really like 645 and although it considered mf, most don't as it's not much of a jump from sf if you are looking for the benefits of bigger negs. A great slr mf camera is the pentax 67 in this price range. Further, keep in mind that 220 is getting harder to find.
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I've used the 645 a few times, and the lenses are probably the best in the entire Mamiya medium format system. The 70mm with a leaf shutter is great, but what about the times you need syncro flash in bright light with another focal length?

 

Back in the 1970's I first got into doing weddings big time, more because I needed the money from weekend assignments rather than a real desire to either work 7 days a week or shoot lots of weddings. We had a 5 year old and a newborn, and my then wife had just started medical school. Between tuition and baby sitters and losing her previous salary I had litle choice. At that time 35mm was simply not an option. The existing color negative films were way too grainy and you didn't look "pro" enough with a 35. I bought a couple of used Mamiya C bodies and 55, 80 and 135mm lenses to supplement the Rollieflexes I already had.

 

Since I now had the Mamiya stuff I started using it for other jobs too. I soon discovered that besides being heavy and awkward, the C glass wasn't up to the standards I was used to with Leicas and Rolleiflexes. 8x10 album prints looked fine but I couldn't get a 16x20 that satisfied me. I guess they looked OK on the wall from 10 feet away, but up close the fine detail just wasn't there.

 

I was soon looking for a Hasselblad and in short order had a 500CM body with 50, 80 and 120mm lenses along with an extra back. Overall a much bigger investment that the Mamiya C series, but a joy to use, and the prints were crisp and gorgeous. I continued to use a TLR Rollei as a back up and for ceremony shots where extreme quiet operation was needed.

 

A friend of mine back then used to use an RB-67 for shooting weddings. He got some great stuff off of those huge negatives but I could never imagine myself shooting with that heavy thing for 6 hours straight.

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Al- I knew I could count on you for great feedback. Similar to your situation, my husband is in school, I'm paying off student loans and as much as I'd love to go Hassie the price is very restrictive. I'm trying to decide if I can do all I want with one 80mm lense on a Hassie and get top quality images or... have more flexibility (be able to buy more than one lens) with a lesser than Hassie but better than 35mm Mamiya. The verdict is still out.

 

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. Katie

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katie,

 

firstly i would decide on a format that you're happy with. have a think about what your

final output will be and use that as a guide to what format would best suit your needs.

645's are cute little cameras and you'll have a lot of freedom to move about and hand-

hold shots... cheap and lots of accessories to bolt on. i never really got into 6X6 because

of the crop. 6X7 - perfect format for non-cropping and you'll get a good neg, but more

expensive and larger cameras. i've used a mamiya RZ (67) for years and love the camera.

the most important thing for me was the feel of the camera and where all the settings

were on it. it became a very natural extension of my hands within weeks. the pentax gear

is a little cheaper. a lot of fashion photographers use them for the freedom they give

being SLR's. but you can move around quickly with a 645 or 6X6 of course. 67 is more a

tripod, studio designed format. i had a pentax but rarely put it on a tripod because i just

wanted to hold it and move around. tho' i have to say, the aperture rings are pretty loose

on those lenses - hand-held, moving around i always taped my aperture down so it

wouldn't move. i've not used a mamiya 645 or any other 645 actually but if i were to buy

one it would be the mamiya because again, all the controls are in the right places for me.

there are lots of focussing screens and heads available for these cameras - you might

wanna do a little research of the accessories offered and think about how you may expand

your line of work and whether the camera you choose will support that direction

equipment wise. as for focussing in dark light, again different types of focussing screens

can make a big difference but i would take a simple spot light with you that you can plug

in somewhere - a focussing light. turn it on, focus on the subject, turn it off when making

your exposures. i'm not sure what the prices of MF gear is these days so i can't help you

there. the camera you choose is like the middle man and you need to cut him out as much

as possible so that when you are working you never need think about the camera for a

second - only the subject. i would say in portrait work that's one of the most valuable

assets you can have.

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If you could swing the cost of a Hassie starter kit, I'd go for it. But this is jumping from the original post in terms of budget. They have become so cheap, and more importantly, one of the biggest digital back makers have just...shall we say, teamed up with them. So, in the future, you'll also have the option of renting an easy to find Imacon back for it. You mention living room portraits, so I'd check out the prices of 'blad glass if you want to go wider than 80mm, as they can be quite dear.

 

There's also the Pentacon TL6 from East Germany that comes with great Zeiss glass for super cheap. But these bodies are finicky and need to be operated correctly to prevent frame over lap.

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I like my Mamiy RB67. It is a little heavy but I have backpacked it into the mountains so its not to heavy...:-) I love the huge negs and the fact that I can sync my flash to it at any speed. The 50mm is a great lens and the 90mm is very nice. I have a 50 90 140 and a 180. Check out the prices at KEH.

 

Michael

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If you're not going to go with a TLR or a Hasselblad, you need to think very carefully about

which orientation you want to shoot in. If you're going to buy a 645 especially, you may

find it VERY inconvenient to shoot landscape-format photos. This is the great strength of

the Mamiya 6x7 SLRs - they let you rotate the back so you can choose your orientation

without tilting the camera on its side (I find it almost impossible to properly level an MF

camera if it's not upright.) A used Mamiya RB67 shouldn 't be punishingly expensive, but

if that's too big or too much, a better TLR might be the way to go - because it lets you

compose landscape or portrait format via cropping the 6x6 negative to 645.

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Yes, I had a couple of Pentacon Sixes in the early 70's with great East German Zeiss Jena lenses. The "finicky" bodies were their downfall, and everytime some importer/distributor would throw in the towel out of utter frustration all of their inventory, Zeiss lenses and all, would be at the big mail order places for a fraction of list price. As a wedding camera they stunk because of the flash synch speed of 1/20th of a second, yup one-TWENTIETH! The longer lenses were usually suplied with a free automatic adapter, mostly for Pentax screw mount, but Exakta and I think Nikon were available. I bought a Pentax body just to use the 180/2.8 which I bought brand new for $99.95 on one of the close-outs. Still, no matter how much you babied those cameras, pretty soon they'd start overlapping frames.

 

If you can swing it an older Hasselblad 500C or 500CM would be your best bet. Many of these were bought by wealthy hobbiests and saw little use. They sometimes turn up at estate sales, the same as pristine Leicas do. The older chrome lenses aren't multi-coated and are often shunned by commercial shooters because they lack the contrast of the black lenses with the Zeiss T* multi-coating. For portraits and weddings the older glass has a nicer smoother look.

 

If you take your time you can likely pick up a body, extra back, 50, 80, and 120 or 150 for not much more than the 645 Mamiya kit. Maybe less.

 

Suggestion: Visit antique stores around town, become friendly with the owners, and offer to help them I.D. photo equipment that they buy in estate sales, even help do the digital photos and write the descriptions for putting the stuff on Ebay for them. You wouldn't believe how cheaply they occasionaly buy stuff for at local estate auctions!

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Dear Katie,

 

I have been using Bronica SQ-A for a long time. I personally don't like the 645 format, I use the 6X6 format exclusively. This is a great camera also built like a tank and unlike the SQ-Ai the battery lasts for a very long time. As for the images, comparing to Hassy, very hard to distinguish. If you wish to get one I would also recommend KEH

 

Greg

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I have both a Mamiya TLR, and a Fuji GA645 Zi.

 

 

THe Fuji is more like a MF point and shoot, easy to use. Pictures are tack sharp and I love everything about this camera for medium format. It is not big or bulky or heavy. It feels lighter than my Olympus E1. Looks a bit like an oversized Leica. It is autofocus, and low light focusing is easy. It NEVER hunts. Down side is that it does not have interchangeable lenses, nor is there a manual focus option. The lens retracts like a modern point and shoot digital. It has SLR-like controls, AEL, ISO overides, manual settings for aperture and shutter, or aperture priority or shutter priority, and that is all I need. It also has a built in flash, which, I never use, but I did try it once, and there was no red eye in the times I tried it. I use mostly a Vivitar on the shoe. Also, it has a PC sync. For fill flash, well, it is a leaf shutter, so there ya go. It's not an SLR, so there is no mirror slap, and you can hand hold down to about 1/30 , or better, depending on how steady your hands are. What I like about it is that, because it is not an SLR, when the flash fires, you can see the precise moment of exposure (it's technically a rangefinder). Another bonus (for me) is that the frames default to vertical, rather than horizontal. Get 32 shots on a 220 roll.

 

I bought mine used for $800.

 

 

Patrick

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A 645 negative, is about 2.7X's larger than a 35mm negative.The results from a good 645 neg, printed to 8X10, 11X14 or 16X20, will blow 35mm out of the water.

 

The 645 cameras (Bronica,Mamiya & Pentax ,with their vertical film paths),are all designed smaller and lighter than any 6x7 camera on the market.The 6x7's negative, is approximately 4X's bigger than a 35mm negative.This isnt really that much larger(about 1/3) than a 645's negative for the added weight & bulk of the cameras.

 

I shoot formals with a M645 camera, and I use the 55mm, 80mm and 150mm lenses .All are superb when stopped down a few stops.The 55mm is equal to a 35mm lens and is mainly used for groups shots,the 80mm is used for everything else.The 150mm is ideal for close portraits of 1 or 2 people.

 

The best lens for low light work is the 80mm F1.9.This is a very bright lens to look through.The best bright screens are the Maxwells.The Beattie's are brighter, but not easier to focus IMHO.

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I completely agree with Steve. My 645E outfit with 55, 80 (2.8) and 150 lenses makes superb pictures (in the horizontal "landscape" format, when the camera is held normally). I would prefer a somewhat shorter, faster telephoto than my 150 though. It is an "eye level" camera, with a non-removable viewfinder. The 645 format is definitely large enough for wedding portraits.

 

If you'd like to e-mail me, I'll respond with a full-size JPEG I just made for a 16"x20" wedding portrait, so you can inspect the detail.

 

That said, you should handle various cameras and select one that is comfortable, steady and fast for you to use. Bronica's ETR cameras are more ergonomic (with a hand grip) than the Mamiya (with its grip), IMO.

 

As Al said, no Pentacons for weddings. I have one with three Carl Zeiss Jena lenses, but I would never use it for a paying job because of overlapping frames.

 

Good luck!

 

"Brandon's Dad"

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Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences. I agree 645 is the right size for me. What solidified my decision to go to medium format was comparing a portrait shoot my boss did, with the exact same shots taken in 35mm and 645 and (wow!) talk about a difference. Steve and Brandon's dad, thank you for sharing you lens selection. That's about the range that I was considering. I appreciate everyones help.

 

Katie

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Please do not judge TLRs by your Seagul experience. If you go search the archives, you can see that Seaguls do not have many followers.

 

On the other hand, I cannot but agree with Bronica suggestions. Both the ETRsi (645) and SQai (6x6) are versatile systems and the prices are not outrageous (especially if you want some other than just basic lenses). They are both leaf shutter systems and unless you really need shutter faster than 1/500s, I see no reason to put up with flash limitation of focal plane shutters. Also, Bronica shutters are electronic and very accurate. I believe you can put an AE prism, motor drive and TTL flash on both models (if needed).

 

If you like to do your own cropping, you may want to consider shooting square format because you do not need to worry about orientation (and you never have to flip camera or rotate a back). Also, the extra space on the short side of the picture is like little insurance against incorrect framing.

 

Also, consider buying more than film magazine. Reloading 120/220 magazines is not as easy as reloading 35mm camera. On the other hand, switching a back is faster than switching a 135 cartridge. On a related note, do not buy bargain rated backs. Film backs are reportedly one of the weaker parts of Bronica systems, so you do not want to start with something that is too used.

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I have a friend who is selling his Bronica ETRSi with three lenses and three backs. I'm not sure what he is asking for them, but if you are interested, I can find out. He has a 50mm, 75mm, and 150mm plus two 220 backs and one 120 back. The camera has the ae prism and a motordrive. I borrowed it for a month (my son knocked my contax over onto cement) and it works very well. Just let me know!
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