Russian rangefinder cameras

I am thinking about getting a zorki 3 ($65), a Kiev 4am ($35),

and/or a Fed 2 ($30). Does anyone have any experience with these

cameras? Are they worthwhile? I really enjoy older mechanical

cameras but am not willing to pay Leica prices. I have and use a

Canonet GIIIQL, an Olympus RC, a Konica S2, Rollei 35TE, a Yashica

Lynx 5000E, etc. Can anyone steer me in the right direction or talk

me out of it altogether? Thanks Komrads!

What you actually want is a Zorki-4k with either a Jupiter-8 (50mm) or Jupiter-12 (35mm) lens. It'll be a better shooting camera than the Zorki 3 or Fed 2. The Fed 2 has the potential to be quite good, but quality control isn't so great.

 

The Kiev rangefinders are decent cameras, but it's somewhat harder to find lenses for them -- many more lenses were made in LTM than in Contax mount.

The accessory shoe on the Fed 2 is so designed that you cannot mount many finders, flashes and other accessories on it :-( All of the Feds and Zorkis which I have bought have needed some repair (even a Fed 5 new in the box); allow about $50 on a used one to get everything working. Quality of the cameras (and lenses) varies considerably -- some of the lenses I have had have been quite good (altho not as good as new Cosina Voigtlander lenses); others, including the 35mm Jupiter mentioned in the previous post have been so bad tht 4x6 prints were not sharp. Caveat emptor.

I guess I have had better luck than some of the previous authors. Here's my score: 3 Fed 2's, two arrived great, one needed to be exercised a little and is now fine (I like the colors - blue, red and green, and they're so cheap and good to use.) 2 Kiev 4's, one with meter and one without. Don't depend on the meter, but everything else on both is fine. One does not accept one lens which I have -- but accepts all the others (35,50, 85, 135) -- I don't see why, but both are sharp with whatever lens I use. Two Zorki C's - one fine on arrival, one needed a little cleaning with lighter fluid and exercise, now fine. Two Zorki 4Ks, one absolutely dead on arrival, but I should have known better -- I paid $15. The other is fine. In lenses, I have 35's an f1.5 50mm, two or three f2.0 50mm, three f2.8 50mms, 85mm, 135mm in both LTM mount for the Zorkis and FEDs and in Kiev mounts. All are fine. I purposely did not buy "mint" because I thought that if the equipment was well used, but operating, the chances were that the former owner found it to be good and serviceable. Perhaps I am not discriminating enough, but I also have a Nikon F2 and both a Leica M6TTL and IIIF, so I have plenty of good equipment for comparison. My biggest problem is that the viewfinders scratch the dickens out of my glasses -- had to replace a lens in my glasses last year. I hope this is helpful.

It's pretty bad luck to get a Jupiter-12 that won't make sharp 4x6s. Mine will make sharp 11x14s at f/5.6. The Zeiss Biogon design it's based on is no slouch.

Though a bit more scarce than the choices you mentioned, I would steer toward a Zorki 6. It has a hinged opening back, a rewind button that is not the blasted collar around the shutter release, and is easier to focus than the other Leica screwmounts. It also has a nice diopter built on the camera near the rewind knob.

 

I really like the Industar f3.5 standard lens, made in 1993, that I took off a Fed 5 of lesser quality than the Zorki 6. Incredibly sharp results.

 

The Zorki 6 has the wide focusing base similar to the Kiev 4am, but is not as big and you will not feel like you are carrying a boat anchor around with you, like you will with the Kiev.

 

From the names you named of the Japanese cameras that you now have, I would say that the Zorki 6 is a bit smaller than the Konica S2, uses smaller lenses and doesn't have a meter built into it like the S2. When do you have time to use all of those cameras, by the way?

Frank, curiously these 3 were my first FSU rangefinders (followed by a couple of medium format folders and a couple more Kievs, but that's another story).

 

Having used all of them, I can only admit I like them all with their different style. Only one thing, if you go for the Zorki 3 (which in my opinion is one of the best made Soviet Leica copies), look instead for the 3M. The original 3 had a separate slow speed dial that was prone to problems, so when designing the successor 3M, they got rid of it and put all the speed settings in the main dial).

 

The Zorki 6 looks like a good choice by the hinged back and the advance lever, maybe I should give one a try someday... :)

 

Reading again the cameras of your choice, you may have already taken a look here at http://www.geocities.com/fzorkis, but if not, do it, it's a GREAT site and a lot of fun to read.

 

Whatever you choose finally, lots of luck ! And beware the Russian camera bug, I bet these won't be your last acquisitions <grin>

 

Oscar

I have FED 5c & 2. The rangefinders of Leica M and Linhof are a bit brighter. The bad point about my stuff is it would need lots of adjustment.

The short answer is that at prices like that you can afford to take a chance on one.

<br><br>

I would recommend either a Zorki 4 or a Kiev 4A with a serial number starting with 65xxxx or less. Kievs had better workmanship, but they may not necessarily give better service since the design was considerably more complex than the Feds and Zorkis. The lenses tend to be slightly less expensive in the Kiev/Contax bayonet mount than in the Fed/Zorki/Leica screw mount, and the Kiev also has a better range/viewfinder in it.

<br><br>

My understanding is that the Zorki 3 had some problems with its slow shutter speed system which were addressed in the 3M and the Zorki 4; but I've never owned a 3, so I'm not sure if the tales are true. The later models tended to have poorer workmanship as the years wore on, and despite some design improvements in the Kiev 4am (which would date from around 1980), I'm not sure I'd recommend it over an early-60s 4a model. Certainly the earlier one will be prettier to look at.

<br><br>

I have repair notes on fed, zorki and contax/kiev at <a href="http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-27.html">rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-27.html</a>.

<br><br>

rick :)=

Had a Zorki 4 with a Jupiter 8 -- I had no problems with the quality of the images from them, but I just could not get used to its operations (my problem, not the camera's). As examples:

<p><p>

- no film advance lever (thumbwheel)<p>

- no click stops on aperture ring<p>

- cock the shutter before changing film speeds<p>

- dim VF<p>

<p><p>

KL

they also have no motor drive, autofocus or digital backs.....

 

:)=

<i>they also have no motor drive, autofocus or digital backs..... -- Richard</i>

<p><p>

LOL!!! It was the lack of an infrared remote accessory that really bothered me :-)

Very sound design, great optics (all of prewar german design).

 

The Kievs are copies of the prewar Contax RF, they can be very reliable in early serial #' (from 50.... to 65....)and get progressively worse later in their production life.

 

The lenses can be superb, but spotty quality control threw in a bad one every now and then, 35mm f2.8; 50mm f1.5, f1.8 and f2.0; 85mm f2.0(!); and 135 mmf4.0. plus all the German Zeiss lenses at many $ more!

 

The early ones start at about $60-75 the later ones as low as $30-35.

 

Good luck in your choice.

 

PS don't bother with the metered ones....

Per John Lehman's comment above about accessory shoes on FED 2's: the later FED 2's have the accessory shoe mounted higher on a kind of "hump" which allows clearance for accessory viewfinders, shoe-mounted meters, etc.

 

Ditto everyone's comment above about caveat emptor and uneven quality. I find the best way to buy FED's and Zorki's is at camera shows, where I can play with the camera, listen to the shutter, and feel the shutter wind hands-on. If that route is unavailable to you - I can recommend Yuri Boguslavsky in New York as a dealer (www.fedka.com) A little more expensive than typical eBay deals, but he stands behind his goods.

I'll second the recommendations for the Zorki 4K and the Zorki 6. When I was considering the purchase of a cheap LTM r/f camera a year or two ago these were the bodies that came out on top of my list on specification, both having lever wind, the 4K for the wide range of shutter speeds, the 6 for the long-base r/f for use with longer lenses ... the lack of slow shutter speeds wouldn't be a problem with a 135 or similar ... and both having combined r/f and v/f.

 

The jury is still out on which I prefer. The 6 is definitely easier to reload "out in the field", not having to find somewhere to put the camera back, and it has strap-lugs, and I prefer the "look" of the camera (as if that makes a difference ;-) ... for the price I'm pleased I bought both bodies.

 

My Russian lenses are all good. I've got a "silver" 35mm, a selection of 50mm ... the collapsible Industar 22 on the Zorki 6 makes a nice compact package ... an 85mm that does focus properly and a 135mm for "when I need it". All these items were purchased on eBay, from different UK sellers, at a "price I wanted to pay" (ie not a lot ;-)

 

Choice of auxiliary viewfinder is also a consideration. The ubiquitous "turret" finder is an all-lens solution (28-135), but it's bulky, the plastic Helios 35/85 bright-line finder is a much more compact (and cheaper) solution if you don't need the wide/tele options ... and it gives the opportunity to preview a shot through different focal lengths without having to "fiddle about".

I don't know about anyone else, but I find the Kiev/Contax design an ergonomic

nightmare. There's just no good place to put all of your fingers. Perhaps if you're Yakuza...

 

I have a number of Soviet LTM cameras, and really have some affection for all of them

except the Fed 1, which, though attractive, is just too consistently badly made. My Zorki

2C is nice enough if the separate viewfinder/rangefinder, lack of slow speeds and bottom

loading design aren't issues for you. The Zorki 3M addresses all of these issues, and is a

nice looking camera too. The Zorki 4 and beyond are O.K., but they're often a step

backwards feature-wise, and they're rather ugly. The Fed 2 is a pretty nice cameral, better

thought-out than the Zorki 2, and mine is smoother in operation than my Zorkis, although

the my rewind mechanism is broken and has to be held down throughout the entire

rewind, ughhh.

 

But my favorite is the Lomo Leningrad, with a built-in spring drive good for 10 or 12

shots. It has a good rangefinder, all the speeds, though not in the right order, diopter

correction, and generally superior build quality. The noise and jump of the spring drive

after the shot do take some getting used to. They're also a bit pricier, in the $75 range.

 

I see little point in using the Russian lenses when Voigtlander has such wonderful modern

lenses at such low prices. The 50/2 Sonnar clone on my Zorki 3M was pretty mediocre,

and everything else was downright ugly. That said, all I've tried are the normals; Some of

the other lenses may well be good, although I still have an immensely hard time believing

they're as good as the Voigtlanders.

 

Bottom line: they're weird, they're fun, and they're a lot of camera for the money. You just

have to be O.K. with the idea that there'll be a lemon now and again.

FED 2 wide rangefinder base, simple works, easy to clean/fix with moderate skill. can double as a hammer.

I have a Kiev 4AM. It was built in the 80s but I have no problems with its quality. Also, the Helios lens is fantastic. I also bought a Jupiter 35mm lens in Contax mount. The lens is great but to change the aperature you need to stick your finger in the front of the lens. Not the best design.

 

I would not hesitate to get a newer Kiev, if you trust the seller. If interested I might sell my outfit.

Frank:

<br>

I have a Kiev-2a made in 1955 ($60) and a Kiev-4a made in 1977 ($24)

and I'm very satisfied with them. Both cameras are very robust and

have the basic functions for a mechanic camera: reliable focal plane

with metalic curtains shutter with speeds from 1/2 s to 1/1000 plus B,

flash sync, timer, and a large base, precise, rangefinder. I have

all normal lens models made for the Kievs: the 50/2 Jupiter-8(M),

the 50/1.5 Jupiter-3 ($30) and the Helios-103 53/1.8 ($8) and all produce sharp images, with the Helios being the best performer.

I have also a Jupiter-12 35mm f/2.8 ($29) that is an excellent general purpose wide angle and a Jupiter-9 85mm f/2.0 ($59) that is very

sharp too. At last, I found a Nikkor-Q 135mm f/3.5 on EBay for

$24 and skiped the soviet Jupiter-11 135mm f/4. I choosed the Kievs

over the Zorki and FEDs mostly because they have all the shutter

speeds in a single mechanism, because these shutter has metalic

curtains and because they have a 90mm base rangefinder. Here you

can find some pictures made with these cameras and lens

<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/1870341">

http://www.photo.net/photo/1870341</a>

<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/1862210">

http://www.photo.net/photo/1862210</a>

<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/1862852">

http://www.photo.net/photo/1862852</a>

<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2182212">

http://www.photo.net/photo/2182212</a>

<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2182257">

http://www.photo.net/photo/2182257</a>

<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2188163">

http://www.photo.net/photo/2188163</a>

<br>

I'm a Nikon user, but I find these cameras and lenses very robust

and cost effective.

Regards

<br>

Pedro

Have had a couple - personal favourite though is the Fed 4 with Jupiter 8 50/f2.

 

Pro's: built-in and simple to read selenium light meter, lever wind, easy loading and a bright rangefinder.

 

Cons: No point giving it to a stranger with an auto-everything camera to take a picture of you and your lady at a tourist site. ;-)

 

Others here are testified to the quality of the Jupiter 8.

 

I picked mine up off the well known auction site for 12GBP in barely used condition, meter matches my Weston, shutter speeds all seem fine, and the lens was another 10...it's been battered around China and still produces.

 

What more do you need?

Hi,

I have several russian rf cameras, including Fed-2 and Zorki-3M. The camera bodies are nice and the FED-2 is by far the best FED ever. It's extremely reliable and confortable to use. The long base rangefinder works well and the camera is well balanced. The Zorki-3M is also the best camera of the Zorki family, more solid and better build than the most recent ones. The Zorki-3 slow speed mechanism is problematic, as it can be easily broken if not used correctly, but it was redesigned in the 3M model. Remember that the FED-2 doesn't have slow speeds...

 

The lenses are very good in general IF THEY WEREN'T OPENED, LUBED AND SERVICED BY AMATEURS. It's easy to ruin a lens that way, and believe me, 90% of the lenses sold at e-bay were serviced by amateurs. I have several russian lenses in perfect working order and giving me excellent pictures. The main problem is not quality control, but curious repairmen !

 

Go ahead, buy one, they are cheap and can give you a lot of fun for the money.

I had 2 Yashica Lynx 5000E. Great lens, extremely sharp, but the diaphragm blades always break. Otherwise is a nice camera. I don't like the Rollei's lighmeter system, it's always with some kind of unreliable behaviour. I sold my 35LED and 35TE, but my 35S.