How do we stop this??

You're still not making sense, Jay.

 

There are laws that let me enjoy eating in a restaurant, see a movie, take a class, or fly on

a plane without my health being endangered by others' cigarette smoke. That is a good

thing. What are you talking about with respect to SUVs and Southern Baptists? There's a

million of them out there. And though I'm not into the SUV thing, as far as I know, there

are no laws prohibiting them. Or Baptists.

 

You mention wheelbarrows, and next, yard signs. Is our police state central government

behind these local ordinances. Have you been doing your part at local city council

meetings at the grass roots level generating support to squash these local ordinances you

are at odds with? Why not?

 

Do you contend this is all being orchestrated out of Washington DC to further some

nefarious objective?

Sir would you mind specifying which Jay to whom you refer? My email alert doesn't distinguish...;)

 

 

>>>grant , may 22, 2004; 07:59 p.m.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

 

Kris Kristoferson<<<<

 

Well Grant I guess freedom is coming soon?....;)....J

Do I know you? You sound familiar.

 

Thank you for the Franklin Quote. I think of it often. And what is 'essential' anyway. Oh yeah, many are written down in some cool document or other.....;).....J

btw, smokin costs everyone money.....ever hear of medicaid?

Brad, may be I'm paranoid, but I see it as a worst case scenario. At least were I live, that worst case hapend! In 1933 my great Aunt was fine, in 1936 she saw no problem and from 1941 to 45 nobody in her small village remembered her being jewish.<br>

<br>

There are some things which trouble me. One of those is the Patriot Act, as long as one is a suspected terrorist, he can be detained for unlimited time without a trial or propper representation by a lawyer and nobody is informed about his whereabouts. If photography in a Subway is conected to terrorism this may bring you in deep trouble!

<br><br>

And is germany a police state? Some do think so, ironicaly not the libertarians. There is a big public conciousnes about things like CCTV surveilance of public places, data mining and data collection by the authorities. There is one method of tracing which is called "Raster Fahndung" I think its dragnet investigation in english. There all data stored anywhere are correlated with each other to find a pattern which may lead to suspects. This was invented in the late 70's to help find the german terrorists and is opposite to german privacy laws. It never worked anyways but the peoples opposition to it lead to a ban of Raster Fahndung as a normal method of criminal investigation and if it is conducted it has to be under close surveillance by the privacy comissioner of the states government.

<br><br>

And to the Railway Stations, they're private porperty although I haven't had a problem photographing at the Hauptbahnhof Bremen as you can see in the acompanying W/NW thread. It is a problem to photograph people in germany as they have the rights to their image, you have to ask for permision beforehand. You can take pictures of people in public places as long as those people are not the subject of your picture and you have to be very careful what you publish on a public forum like this or on a private website without password protection, thats a spin-off of our privacy laws.

<br><br>

Most of my concerns come from reports in german magazines and some research on the internet.<br>

Here are some links we could discuss in private via e-mail<br>

<a href="http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/17/usint8592.htm">Human Rights Watch</a><br>

<a href="http://www.aclu.org">American Civil Liberties Union</a><br>

<a href="http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/">Human Rights First</a>

<br><br>

Take care<br>

 

Volker

Your e-mail; is an open book now....nothing is private...:(....J

Geez, I may be on the liberal side of the stated topic, but listing

these municipal ordinances as lead into a federal police state is

pretty damn lame.

jeez.........i go shoot and develop for a day or two and photographer's rights to shoot on nyc transit has turned into who can paint their house bright green (or whatever)....

 

which is a problem........and the "powers to be" are quite good at diversions such as this..........so let's stick to topic...you fight one battle at a time to win the war.

 

Photography in nyc subways, busses, and terminals. At least NY is proposing a new law. NJ Transit just does it......

sorry.......thought I had linked <a href="http://www.nycsubway.org/">this nycsubway link</a> in my previous post. Take note of paragraph 4..........NJ transit.........no laws were broken....yet they still detained them.......

 

if anyone has more info on this, i'd love to see a copy....i just found this when googling to see how the nytransit thing was going

Abstact arguments over whether the US is a police state or not aside, it ought to strike anyone with any sense as odd that the New York City police are now enforcing a "law" that is not a law yet and may not be (sanity willing) a law ever. In fact by doing so, the police are violating photographers rights. If there is no law that says you cannot do it then you can do it. That's elementary. The police are in violation of the law that says you cannot enforce laws that do not exist. There is something seriously wrong with cops that presume to stop you from doing something that is legal. There is something wrong with a police department that allows this to go on. The trouble is that this sort of bullying can lead to worse things. Photographers getting night sticks up the wrong end. Maybe photographers getting shot by cops who cannot tell the difference between a Leica and an Uzi.

 

I've cancelled my plans to visit NYC this summer. It's not beause of this but because the Republicans are coming to town. New Yorkers I know say I'm doing the right thing and wish they could get out when the GOP convention is going on.

 

Would like to hear how street photogs fare under and above ground during that trying time.

<i>The police are in violation of the law that says you cannot

enforce laws that do not exist</i><p>If the MTA situation is

connected to the Patriot Act, then they can do what they want.

<p>I've had some thoughts of getting back to NY in September

myself. I would assume it would be clear sailing after the

convention is over Sept 4th, right?

The Republican Convention......hmmmmmmmmm.....now THAT answers the question as to "why now?". Propose a law they know won't be passed, but meanwhile enforce it as if it was. Get's them thru the convention.......see, we did a great job surveiling the place....and then just let a unjust proposal fall to the wayside afterward. "No-fualt infringement of rights"....

 

....just a thought.

HAHAHAHAHA, Yep makes sense in a nice twisted way...;)....J

Politicians pass laws to try and convince the voters that 'something is being done'.

An interesting read if anyones still interested in this<a href="http://www.pdnonline.com/photodistrictnews/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000521170"> subject</a>.

I was hoping a major (pro-photography) organization would voice their opinion on this subject. Good to see.

This ban does not go far enough. Why not prohibiting photography altogether? There's far to many pictures all around us anyway.

 

My 2 cents.

 

M.