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Littman 45 Single/110 Polaroid question


adrian_morgan

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Mr. Pryor , you said "je ne sais quoi" applies to mystique or feeling even about the things one knows quite well,

 

I only repeated how you referred to it, I know about the tilt but I agree it has " je ne sais quoi" anyway.

 

No .Shift could be possible but it would require a very precise F standard system that would allow the mechanism and a perfect lock in "0" or dead center for normal use and that would take a lot of space and weight would be a problem, as all would have to be reinforced, , the tilt issue came as a result of other factors needed and has no consequence on normal operation but the shift issue would require a major front standard because these cameras require that infinity be perfect on both axis.

 

doable, yes, but I believe it would interfere with the rf quality unless you had a very good standard and that means size and weight.

 

The tilt here is useful for moving portraits, because if you check with the glass back once you will see that if you focus thru rf with the tilt on something a fraction of it will be in focus, if you use that point as reference for subsequent photos thru the rf/vf and shoot with tilt in motion for portraiture and throw half or 1/3 of the image out of focus

etc, this is possible because you will keep accurate composition

by the parallax and use the reference point you checked with the glass once you would get results which would also allow for spontaneity and not just the tilt " effect".

 

It is a good eventual trick on the snapshot camera which becomes swing in the horizontal position, its included ,works quite well and doesn't hurt to have it .

 

from where you see the standard in the draft that is (infinity) and the rf will focus from 3 ft to infinity, but you can move the whole standard forward in increments all the way up to the very front and do close-ups thru ground glass with all lenses up to 1 ft.

 

------------

 

I also have the Littman FRFIII by January which is a derivative of that gadget on the hotshoe of the American photo article which can be programmed to shoot close-ups thru rf between 1-3 ft or use as a finder to use view cameras with complicated tilts and shifts as hand held preset portrait cameras or shoot 8x10 handheld in movement thru rf, " that is cool".

both focus and parallax can be programmed to match the glass and then all is locked and camera is operated as if a Polaroid big shot.

 

good only for those doing repetitive series of identical cropping so you only focus once.

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THIS IS A PHOTO shown in the draft below fig (20A)BY WHICH SOMEONE CAN INSIST TO HAVE RIGHTS, IT SHOWS THE MATTERS AT HAND , IT SHOWS WHERE THOSE RIGHTS ARE ESTABLISHED,AND DUE TO EXISTING DOCUMENTATION IT PROVES DATE BACK TO THE YEAR 2000.

 

I AM HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT MY PRODUCT

BUT WHEN THE INSISTENCE IS THAT THE ONLY VALID ANSWER WOULD BE " COMPARISONS WITH OTHER CONVERSIONS" I INSIST (A) A MERE CONVERSION ISN'T MERITED AND WHEN THAT ISN'T ACCEPTED I INSIST (B)

A MERE CONVERSION IS PATENTED SO THERE IS NOTHING TO BE COMPARED UNTIL THAT IS ESTABLISHED OTHERWISE BY THE LAW. thank you.<div>006Zf8-15394784.jpg.6a9dc4d6d094ea23af34a07620f810c1.jpg</div>

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Hey mr Litttman, back to your defensive ways. After providing us with some excellent info about your Tilt and shift, you revert back to the strange conversation of not comparing your camera to any other and bring back the patent issue.

 

Face it - you lost the 'only 4x5 conversion' arguement a long time ago. You have a good product, that can do what other conversions can't. You have a patented method of attaching a 4x5 back to the polaroid - but it isn't the only method.

 

It will go on being compared, and not just by me, but everyone. Face that reality, and your life will be a lot happier.

 

Adrian

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(WHAT SHOULD BE COMPARED)

 

the method of attaching a back,as is not the merit of my product,nor any product, photography is all dedicated to a final synergy which takes place in amillisecond considering a camera's benefit should be a quest to analyze how it can contribute to such synergy and not otherwise , clearly the conversion of a camera is negleigible if other cameras of that format already exist for less money and better made.

 

I have an issue when the comparison is based on that and after all is answered which is the merit and difference the insistence is that the conversion was the only question. a good example is that while my product requires extra work as I explained due to the parts, any 3x4 camera as in the case of the 600 se mentioned By Mr. Anatole,

the rf will suffice up to 3x4 with the lens wide open but if you can put a ground glass and the camera at minimum distance (3-4) ft from an led or laser beam and another beam or led at 15 ft and you also have access to infinity thru a window lets say a mile away,

you will see that one of these three points will not superimpose,

you have converted nothing and you have modified no back, and you can live with this because in these cameras or graflex xl or mamiya universal the 3x4 was for Polaroid but the film was 6x9 or 6x7 and the smaller the film the less you need a dedicated cam to a specific lens, these issues are the reason a coupled parallax rangefinder 4x5 was never attempted and I have been able to verify and the reason why my camera has to have a fixed lens.

 

You wanted to see why it is that my camera was so special , but you insist that the hull or enclosure is the difference, I insist it benefits weight and tolerances to a degree but not the difference with other conversions or with any other previous existing camera when one wants to consider that the intention is a camera to be used hand held and thru a rf/vf , if it isn't the whole thing is pointless as was my first opinion because a crown graphic with a lens focused thru ground glass would provide the same result as the littman focused thru ground glass, yet no other existing or converted 4x5 would produce the results of the littman and this isn't as a result of the fact that it is converted but as a result that what counts is the internal configuration if one is to rely on that for hand held use,

 

there are 3 degrees of accuracy in a rf (from worst tobest)

 

1) back- forth mechanism without cam as in speed graphic/kalart etc

2) standard cam by manufacturer for all lens of same focal length .as in 3x4 cameras

3) standard cam by manufacturer for all lens of same focal length as in linhoff and selected lens by manufacturer of camera to best fit the cam performance

 

4) dedicated cam to each specific lens by manufacturer of camera as in littman and I don't know if linhoff does the same ,which is absolutely required if one is to use a 3x4( tessar lens )on 4x5 thru rf as in the case of any of these 3x4 cameras or in any case in which one wants to use a combined rf/vf for the application the issue becomes potentiated because the rf part in the finder will be shared with the parallax and smaller.

 

In the 600 se you can get larger film but you don't get parallax correction and rf issues will be present with the lense wide open

this will be the case on any configuration regardless of conversion

or existing 3x4 cameras, what I did was overcome that and I added parallax correction , that is the true comparison.

 

My camera as a synergy can be compared to the Linhoff and other

LF .rf cameras with a dedicated cam , shells, hulls etc are the realm of cameras focused thru ground glass not Lf rf cameras.

 

While i agree that what you insist is insevitable fueled by the

"spend less" factor I hope that the focus of the discussion can turn towards a synergy, and that the merit of fault be found based on whether " comprable products have comprable synergy" and in a wholistic perspective considering the actual moment of taking the picture.

 

(FINAL NOTE ON THE PATENT ISSUE)

 

 

 

I did loose any argument in the forum of public opinion due to the way it was presented as a "loose- loose "situation for me .but in the end even the person who started it ,admitted that the patent needs to be respected and what I lost is that people were made to believe otherwise .

 

I thought I could yield to something which isn't my call to determine as I haven't been allowed to see what could put the issue to rest and it is not my call or yours.I tried but it turns out that the person in question still has to submit the evidence establishing his priority to the patent office.

 

 

 

Patent claims aren't something you buy , they are granted due to proof of invention and it appears I cannot limit them

unless I have seen evidence of prior invention,

 

I can neither win or loose an argument fueled by the hopes of those who wish to spend less, therefore that argument is closed and it will be resolved when the Patent Office receives proof of priority by another on a specific configuration . In the meantime im not enforcing my patent but it also doesn't mean that all else is free, you and others have gone to ask for maps to build your own and the insistance that I lost an argument is always fueled by a personal motivation as expressed, therefore not independant when those who insist that my rights should be limited because they want to pay less, make their own, as an admitted reason for insisting an argument should be lost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

thank you

>

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what should be compared.

 

From the point of view of the consumer - and after all, that is all that matters as we buy the products :-)

 

2 cameras, both shooting 4x5 film, both rangefinders, both based on the Polaroid 110A body. can you honestly tell me you expect no comparisons????? If both of these were $600 then there would still be a comparison. Since one is $600 and the other is $2350 there is a stronger comparison. And one stands up better than the others.

 

You know that others exist. You know from previous discussions others exist. but you try to ignore them - to your detriment.

 

i've read your patent, and whilst I am not a patent lawyer, it seems you have patented the method you attach the 4x5 to your Polaroid 110A bodys, and the methods you take to change the focussing cams etc. That's fine. It doesn't look to me that you are actually patenting the attaching of the back, but the method.

 

You have proved the method you use is unique - and I agree.

 

You have proved the changes made to the focussing are unique - and i agree.

 

You have proved your camera with the total of all the modifications you make is unique - and I agree.

 

You have also proved your marketing approach is unique - and I think everyone agrees.....

 

Enjoy life, and try and relax.

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I may know they exist but as i have reiterated as priority has not been proven by another I felt it was sufficient that they sell their product and market it on their own effort. you expected me to advertize them on my site? whatever it is that i have proven, I offer, since nothing else has been proven know that it is an outstanding issue, which may turn out as you expect.nobody knows that. lets leave it at that

 

After which it was not an unfair request that you dont turn mowhill into mountain using my name and vice versa.I hope you enjoy yourself as well. and I hope your rush to compare proves justified in the future, thanks

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Happy Thanksgiving;

 

wanted to announce the opening of a new Photo gallery by an L45s owner in our site,

http://www.littman45single.com/

 

Once in the gallery section look for ( other galleries)

 

Photographer Sebastian Kim , utilizes instant peel apart films to shoot all his work and has done so for years with a collection of instant cameras and he owns all the major ones as; Polaroid

180/195/konica instant press , etc.

 

In this case the pics are low light (night)exposures and a tripod has been used due to long exposure times, yet focus and composition was done thru the L45s rf/vf.

 

4x5 Polaroid color prints can be used as final product, as you will see the low light, and tonality make for a funky effect but under normal light conditions the colors would be closer to film, and there is nothing wrong with funky as a creative alternative, being that fuji instant films are another option and its color balance fluctuates less

and the resolution is also different. and then there is film,both positive and negative,

 

Next week you will finaly find the gallery By Alban Christ which will be published images by Marie Claire, and elle magazines and lanscapes he likes to shoot when on brake while on his fashion assignements.

 

Alban shoots all his work on wet process films.

 

then the following week you will find the first high definition /Hi Res. gallery shot with a L45s 120 apo symmar, By renowned New York Portraitist Henry Lewtwyler, and the work will include published Images of celebrities, magazine assignments, using both polaroid T55 and wet process color films.

 

Henry was the first recipient of the Coupled paralax rangefinder 4x5 advantage in november of 2000 and the first to also receive the advantage of a Apo symmar coupled to a custom cam in the L45s.

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When this thread was started my site was not updated because I hadn't the time, and questions were raised as to whether the pro's use the camera on jobs, I have posted this response as an answer to that question,and also after you insisted they buy it because they are affluent, or the camera is pretty I have to show that they buy it because it is a tool that merits the expenditure,

 

So my response is not advertising ,it is a direct answer to specific questions, after all, only one series of 20 pictures by one Photographer was all that one could see, that will change into

more galleries by the owners and their comments .

 

Again (Happy) Thanksgiving

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I regret that there is no such agreement anywhere in my website!

I apologize but it is quite uncomfortable to be at the mercy of

these fabrications.

 

Again those interested in (Photography )are invited to the Opening of Alban's gallery on Friday.those interested in creating dissent are invited to go away.

 

thank You

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  • 5 months later...

First off, I'm not from Australia and I do not know AM or any of his/her Aussie friends(LOL). So, do not accuse me of being part of this rabble rousing group.(What is a Rabble anyway, any definitions?) I came to this sight to get an opinion on the Littman 45.

Since Mr. Littman feels his camera is not a conversion, then I guess I was looking at the wrong Littman website. Because all the cameras there looked like they were Polaroid bodies converted into a fine 4X5 piece of camera equipment, not a 4X5 built from scratch. I think I'll buy one of those, because they seem to be well made and of great quality. Especailly for a conversion. That must have taken a great deal of work.

I would like to know if anyone has seen the other Littman 45, that Mr Littman is refering to. I still have not seen this Littman 45, since Mr. Littman insists his camera is not a conversion. I would love to see this inovative, built from scratch, brand new camera that was not made from the body of an old polaroid 110 camera body, it must be wonderful.(Can you feel the sarcasim here?)

Here is a little something without sarcaism Mr. Littman. I was intent on purchasing your camera conversion and looked to your website. After reading a brief article, which mentions your camera conversion, I was very curious about the camera. Since your website really did not have a whole lot of technical information, I googled your name to find critiques, praises, COMPARISONS, and information. I stumble upon this thread. After reading the thread, and hoping to get tech data, I was disturbed by your responses. At first I was suprised to see you responded to the queston. But, after I read all of your responses, the tone and wording has put me off completely to purchasing your camera.

As a consumer I do not care about who patented what and when, I only care about the product. Is it the best? Is it worth the cost? Will it fill my needs? What are the technical aspects of the camera? Not one of your answers addressed these concerns. Not one of your answers help me to make an informed opinion. I do know, however, that you patented your camera. Unfortunatly, that does not help me. So, I regret to inform you that, your attituted and responses have swayed my decision. I will NOT be purchasing your camera. Maybe if you would have responed with more information about the camera and a little less information on the patented I would be parting with $2500.

 

Brian (USA not Aus)

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Mr. Brian

 

I have had no problem selling that which I can produce, I do not insist that my camera isn't a conversion, I insist that it utilizes a conversion as 10% of the process to arrive at a finished product, and as hundreds of models of 4x5 cameras existed without need of body transformation that aspect is negligible unless one wants to evaluate things based on their external appearance, what I offer is not a box, what I offer is what is inside.

 

If you visited my site you may have noticed that those who use it insist it excels the best products previously available because of the synergy it offers as a point and shoot 4x5, and that is just one aspect but when coupled with the fact that when I started the project the first cameras were just a conversion and they didn't exceed anything ,were unreliable and had all kinds of shortcomings ,I can assert with confidence that what I now offer is not a conversion but something which utilizes a conversion to a degree in order to take advantage of what is good for the final product, the final product is an efficient coupled rf parallax camera which now is even better than it was, and the conversion done by me earlier was nothing like it, after examining other conversions I can state with confidence that the value of the littman is not the conversion but I also admit that the conversion aspect is valuable to the Littman, and anyone can see that it is not the same thing at all.

 

Yes I chose the avenue for a reason , the avenue in itself is insufficient , the proof of that is that once you have converted the format you end up with a box , and there are better existing boxes which have never been recognized to be as synergistic as The l45s as a snapshot 4x5 .

 

I apologize if you feel that I haven't answered your questions , I'm a photographer and I got interested in this project and suddenly found myself obligated to learn engineering laws and challenge existing beliefs.

 

When I introduced my camera it was laughed at by the old school and now it is rated as most responsive Lfer yet, I recognize that My communication skills are limited, but I offer a camera not my personality , The camera appears to have performed in excess of any expectation and It is a short time project, and my frustration stems from being obligated to do more than I have to when people make public requests for more info, more service etc, etc,

 

I apologize that the product cant be more easily examined as it is a limited production, I should not be penalized for doing all and sometimes more than I can.

 

I am constantly forced to answer questions not asked to me directly and in public and after the fact, with an implied threat of risk, that I either become the service you would like or I will be discredited, clearly it is this which is unacceptable to me .

 

I do have a duty, first to the making of a good product, It appears I have fulfilled it, then to service my customers, that also has been fulfilled, and it is insane that I should be obligated to divert my efforts away from my customers so that I can satisfy the curiosity of those who wish to believe external appearance is key on a precision instrument.

 

I can no longer do it, I do not wish to do it and in a few days I will no longer have to do it.

 

If some insist I do not answer tech questions I say I do so more than anyone else , forgive me but until I got involved in this I was a successful fashion photographer , It is said that those who can express their opinions well thru their art have a tougher time putting their thoughts into words, so yes I am guilty of that but lets get real and face that in the end my efforts yielded something which works really well, and the best insit that it performs better than anything else and for a long time, and reminding all that this is not my background I insist that nobody has the right to ask more of me when the fact is that I had to leave my picture taking aside because all who can write very well never produced something like the L45s.

 

You do not like my tone and I do not like that all is taken out of context.

 

Way before any of these threads were started the person who claimed to have converted a 110b to 4x5 25 years ago sent me the following email"Your camera must be so much lighter and so much more well made than mine. If I had a choice, I would have a Littman over what I am producing. (They aren't the same thing at all. )Yours is like an ultralite Linhof, and mine is a Polaroid 110B with a flange on the back. "

 

Let me just remind all that the linhoff is the best Rf assited view camera ever made and you can read what my clients rate my camera in comparison to it on my site, what are we talking about ? everyone including those who wish to compete at any cost admit there is no comparison .

 

If that, which is the truth would have been conveyed by the converters in their offers these threads would not exist , or at least would not be hostile to me , I do not have to defend my words when I have admittance from them That what I state is the truth, My words are defended by my clients results in the field and I will continue to do what I can to update my site and make it as informative as I can.I have no quarrel with the free flow of information but I do no longer wish to be ambushed by abuse as a result of misinformation . they admit(" they are not the same thing at all") I agree and I have always insisted that , and I abandoned the mere conversion before anyone else offered it,

 

I am not an ogre , just very busy and I would like to dedicate my time to those who after this long track record of reliance prefer to believe the best publications, the best editors, the best photographers , the awards, and why not the images produced and finally my word , when all I say has been substantiated by years of

positive results , those who qualify as clients will believe those who qualify to give their opinion on a professional product which can be successfully used by amateurs but is not an amateur product.

 

I would like to end this long and reiterative post by saying that I would like to share the success of The L45s with all photographers,the recognition of being the easiest to use and most responsive Large format camera belongs to all Americans and all of photography , what I ask in exchange is that is that those who act in good faith do what they can to prevent any further abuse , I have done more than I could , everyone has benefited from my efforts, and asking for more is nothing but abuse. " 4x5 Flange" did not/does not translate into "most responsive Large format camera yet" , anyone can see that so please give it a rest .

 

I do buisness on my terms , that doesnt sit well with some, nothing I can do about it, but my clients know that I am a well educated responsible and considerate person and they get a great camera, and that is all that matters ,

 

Today after 4 years , I had set some time aside to go take some pictures with one of the cameras I made, instead I find myself discredited again and forced to respond , I cant make sense of any of it and Im over the whole equation, I will make a few more cameras for those who will allow me to enjoy them as well.

 

Thank you.

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Blimey, I`ve only just found this one! For a visit to a friendly website dedicated to converting old Polaroids to different formats, including 6x12 rollfilm AND 4x5, go to 'Razzledog`s Camera Homepage' at:

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~razzle

It`s even a 'Patent'(laugh) and Intellectual Property' free zone. All the humbug associated with fitting a simple Graflok back (or alternative) to a 40 year old Polaroid camera is explained. The resulting camera is superb, the cost is realistic, the results are fantastic. Unfortunately the idea isn`t new.<div>00A8LP-20480584.jpg.502538099db62fbdfff3a4819163c6db.jpg</div>

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