Clouds - Red & Yellow filters on C41 films

Hello,

 

I tried shooting some landscapes over the weekend. I wanted to have

the clouds in the picture and wanted them to stand out. I used a #25

red filter to try and increase the contrast. But the results were

quite disappointing. The sky turned out to be quite uniform in

color. The sky wasn't white but it was a light grey. I didn't use a

polarizer. I was shooting into the sun (not directly though).

 

What can I do to improve my results? Should I have used the

polarizer? Am I expecting the wrong thing from the red filter?

Would a yellow filter have worked better? Should I try to shoot away

from the sun when I'm trying to make the clouds stand out?

 

How do you choose between using a red or yellow filter? What are you

looking for? (shooting a landscape - not something with lots of red

or yellow which you may want to make lighter).

 

If anyone has tips on how to get the dramatic cloud effect, I'd

really be interested.

 

Thanks for your help

You need a really blue sky. The light slight overcast with a pale blue showing will never be dramatic.

 

Yellow, orange, red make the clouds stand out to various degrees by cutting off a portion of blue light. If the is limited blue to cutoff, the filter will have no effect.

Did you do your own printing? Did you scan in the negs?

 

If no, then my guess would be that the shop that printed them tried to keep the sky from getting too dark, not realizing what you wanted. I'd go back and have them re-printed.

To get the red filter to work you need white clouds on a blue sky. The red filter makes the blue sky darker because blue (cyan) it is an opposite color if there is no blue does not work very effectively. It is the same for the yellow and orange filters too.

<< The sky turned out to be quite uniform in color. The sky wasn't white but it was a light grey. >>

 

I think there is some confusion about the above statement. Do you mean that the sky in the prints turned out light grey or the sky while you were taking the photos was light grey?

Sorry for the confusion. I mean to say that the print was a light grey. The sky, as I remember it, was a lighter blue, and the clouds were of a pretty bright white.

 

A previous poster said I needed a dark blue sky. If I don't have this...will I not be able to make the clouds stand out?

 

I didn't scan the negs. I had them printed at the shop. I've looked at the negs, and the clouds do seem more noticible in the neg. I wish I could have them reprinted...but I'm in Taiwan, and I'm almost certain they won't understand my request. I need to go study my Chinese...

 

Thanks for the responses everyone

Whenever I need something reprinted, I try to bring in an example of what I mean.

 

Most recently I had a set of prints made from a trip to the Garden of the Gods in Colorado. The major feature there is the red sandstone formations. However, the rocks in the prints came back looking anemic and washed out. Not a hint of the wonderful color in them.

 

So, I returned with a print that shows the wonderful color of the rocks and asked them to re-print. They kept the sample for reference and reprinted the whole roll at no cost to me.

Thanks Rob. Would this be called printing "down"? I think I might be able to show a picture the way I want it.

 

If the trees and everything else in the picture is exposed like I want it...after reprinting (to get the sky darker, and the clouds more apparent) - will these other elements become correspondingly darker?

When the sun is getting low in the sky (late afternoon/early evening) go outside and have a look at the sky. First face i nthe direction of the sun and scan with your eyes from the horizion to the top of the sky. Then face the opposite direction from the sun and do the same. You will see that there are many, many shades of blue that can be present in the sky.

 

Yellow and red filters work best with the deep, dark royal blue that you see in the sky when it is almost dusk. This is the kind of blue that can give you a black sky. Conversely, if you are shooting at high noon, your yellow and red filters will do much less to darken your skies.

 

Also, if you want dark skies, try a circular polarizer. As you twist the polarizer you can actually see your sky darken and lighten. It is a very educational experience and can be easier to use than yellow and red filters. Of course, with the polarizer the same things about time of day apply.

You may also want to measure how your meter reacts when metering through each filter. I've had good results with light blue skies and bright white clouds using a red-orange filter on an EOS Elan 7 as long as overexpose by and extra stop. To test, compare meter readings with/without the filter to the filter factor (note ff: 2x=1stop, 4x=2stops, 8x=3stops).

It doesn`t have to be a circular pol as these may be quite expensive. A plain pol will do as well photo wise, but MAY cause the meter in the camera to not read properly. This happens if there is a optical device in front of the meter cell and you cross polarise to eliminate light to the meter.

 

You can compensate with a linear pol if you orient the poloriser to the same direction as the one in front of the meter, as evidenced by the least exposure required. Then rotate to get the degree of pol you require and do not change exposure.

 

To check if you are doing the right thing, establish the correct exposure and apply a 1.5 or 2.0 filter factor. This should be the same as the reading minimum with the pol in place. Of course if you have a lot of money, buy the circular one. I use circulars, but just happened to have one from a view camera that fit a little used lens and the method I outlined worked just fine.

Regarding the costs of circular polarizers: Check and see if there are any camera shows in your area. I picked up several 51mm filters at a camera show, including my circular polarizer, for $5 each. That's a great price, since new 51 mm filters can be as much as $30.

Note that a polarizer will work when you are at right-angles to the sun; it won't help so much if you are shooting into the sun.

If you were shooting into the sun, even if obliquely, there may have been enough veiling flare to spoil any contrast boost you were after. Veiling flare can be difficult to see because it can be present without ghosting, a more obvious sign of flare.

 

It's difficult enough for a well designed, multicoated lens to cope with such lighting. Add the flat optical surface of a filter, even if multicoated, and you'll need to be much more observant of flare inducing lighting.

my guess is something no one has mentioned.

 

in addition to needing a darker blue sky to begin with, you also have to METER to get the darker sky. film (especially that c41 b+w) just doesn't have the latitude of the human retina. you're gonna lose something. if you want the sky 18% grey, use a spot or center weight meter over a patch of sky. if you want it darker, try taking that exposure down a notch or two.

 

you will likely lose some shadow detail in whatever else in the picture, though.

Jeff has a good point. When I shot some Pan F+ @ EI 50 with a red filter I knew I'd have to let the foreground foliage go almost black in order to get the dark sky and approaching thunderstorm where I wanted it. I figured a little dodging and burning later would fix any imbalance.

 

I'll attach one example. Here's another:

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/1600212&size=lg<div></div>