Stopped Today from Photographing by Airport Security

See, that's what happens when you talk Plastic Politics. Someone comes along and pokes those bits you would err.. rather forget about.

 

Thanks for the amusement.

Lee,

 

Like Robin says, we live in a difficult and complex world and very few decisions, political or ethical are straightforward. However I know of very few people who vote according to your criterion. In fact many people that I know vote for things like a better health service or better education, or for environmental concerns, which they know mean more taxes.

 

Many of them are also accutely aware that leading more frugal and less profligate lives with concern to material things, does not make them either less secure or less happy. In fact it can often be liberating - there's simply less clutter and less of a sense of waste and burden.

 

I am certainly not saying that these people are somehow virtuously free from the sort of passive greed I was thinking of, but at least they are conscious of it and find that they can also do something about it if they chose, and find that it can be liberating rather than a source of deprivation.

 

I don't know if this is to some extent a reflection of a Europe/US divide, or whether it is merely a political choice. I know with my father, who has very little by choice and consumes almost nothing, it is a matter of temperament.

difficult and complex world

 

Really, it's very simple. I have, you haven't....great for me, bit of bad luck for you. Never mind. Try not to cry too much; hate it when your tears get on my clothes. Go away now, your are starting to be a bother.

Love to help you, maybe. But things are very complex, thank God. I'm glad for complex....what a worry without that word. Jeez, i might have to help....better go and hide, someone might get me.

Robert Clark, nobody cares about your politics, or anyone elses. Fact.

 

However, if you took a plane to India (or anywhere else,plenty of choices) adopted a 'about to cease family', they would care. They would listen to you, and cherish every word you have to say. They would be so thankful that have got you to live another day...you would be truly a demi god. And you would deserve to be one. So stop spouting, do something yourself, personnel.

 

Of course you won't, because you don't care that much...welcome to humanity!.

What could possibly be of interest that you would stake out the airport for two weeks? The "public" places must have a set of rules or the public that uses the place would be too inconvenienced. What if I had a car club that wanted to meet every week inside the airport concourse, wouldn't we be told "NO"? The bottom line is you're not free to do anything you want, anytime and any place you want to.

 

Perhaps some of the new rules in this post-9/11 country are misguided, but at least the elected officials are trying to do _something_ to keep us as safe as possible.

 

I guess it depends where you are in the world and what your personal frame of reference to any terrorist act may or may not be, but having been personally affected by the NYC 9/11 attacks, if I was told I could never walk with my camera again I wouldn't be all that broken up about it. My backyard was used for the opening salvo in a war by those bastards, and we brought it to them in spades in Afghanistan. I, and MANY others in this area don't care what has to be done or whose "right" to take a photo is denied, we just don't want a repeat of 9/11. Not here, not anywhere in this beautiful country. There's more important things to many people than being able to take a photo of an empty escalator at an airport. All the bridges in NYC now have warning signs against photographing them. You will at the least have your camera confiscated if you ignore them. If any of you had been on that first train that pulled into the World Trade Center Station a week ago, you'd see what I mean. It was a very emotional experience for many of us. I'd also venture to say that political correctness was not on anyone's mind then, and "raghead' is too kind a term for those who attacked us.

Allen, Robert _lives_ in India and is the most generous and helpful person I have come to know in Bombay. And, BTW, he actually _does_ support the underpriviledged actively.

George, that certainly explains alot about where you're coming from. If you don't care about your rights, I'm sorry for you. Thanks for the insight.

Ray,

 

Like I tried to say in a roundabout way, if you haven't lived through it, it may be difficult for you to get it.

<I>"Perhaps some of the new rules in this post-9/11 country are misguided, but at least the elected officials are trying to do _something_ to keep us as safe as possible."</I><P>

No, George, you are <b>wrong</b>.

<P>

They have done nothing at all. If you think that 95% of the half-assed measures that have been enacted since 9/11 are making you safer here in the USA, well then I've got a lovely bridge I'd like to sell you. <P>Look at the UK, look at all the things they did to try and stop the terrorism of the hardcore IRA branches. Video cameras, troops on the corners, paramilitary raids, checkpoints, etc. And did it stop them? Or look at Israel. We will likely NEVER have the kind of lockdown military state that the territories have over there. But that doesn't stop people from blowing up busses full of women and children.

<P>

Don't kid yourself or your country. Stopping photographers from taking photos of a railroad track isn't going to defend against a suicide bomber who doesn't care about his own life. The only way to keep another 9/11 from happening is to dry up the money that supports those attacks. And that money for sure wasn't in Iraq.

"My backyard was used for the opening salvo in a war by those bastards, and we brought it to them in spades in Afghanistan."

<p>

It was hardly an "opening salvo." They tried to blow it up once before, remember? Big bomb, many casualties. And as for "bringing it to them," well, we rearranged some rocks and rubble and the political order in Afghanistan with <i>our</i> bombs, but the dust has settled now and the Taliban is moving back in, too. Meanwhile, the people we should have been 'bringing it to' are hiding behind the robes of a Saudi royal family that's politically and economically enmeshed with our own leaders, so we can't bomb Riyadh, can we? So we squander our arsenal, our money and an unprecedented amount of international good will and go after poor Iraq, instead. And our national short-term memory problem conveniently helps us forget that the <i>bogeyman de jour</i>, Saddam, had been supported and cosseted by our government for years, and they were fully aware of his human rights abuses all along.

<p>

The war on terrorism needs to be fought, but we're going about it the wrong way; we're wasting our time in Iraq and Afghanistan and it's going to end badly.

actually _does_ support the underpriviledged actively.

 

 

Then he is a treasure in a world that sadly lacks.

<i>What could possibly be of interest that you would stake out the airport for two weeks?</i>

<p>

It's exactly this kind of ignorance that puts humanity in peril. If it doesn't mean anything to you or you don't understand it, no one else who it does mean something to need have the right to do it.

<p>

Your kind of thinking is why fascism is alive and well.

"What could possibly be of interest that you would stake out the airport for two weeks? "

<p>

Um, that falls under the heading of <i>none of your goddamned business,pal!</i>

I have been hanging out in the airposrt for years. Everything in there interest me.<div></div>

Everything in there interest me.

 

I love Ray, too. I can understand why he finds Airports interesting, i do. I'm sure he understands why security finds him interesting, too. Lets not get personnel over a simple difference of opinion.

I was never questioned. I guess security ain't so tight here? Or am I just lucky?<div></div>

<I>George Shihanian: "... 'raghead' is too kind a term for those who attacked us. ..."</I><P>George, I'm guessing by your name that you are of Armenian extraction. If you indeed are, then think back to why you are in the US. It is because the Turks massacred thousands of your ancestors around 100 years ago. Otherwise you'd be in Armenia, enjoying life the way some of my friends would like to, but will never get the chance. Does it matter to you at all? The only reason I point this out is because Turkey is a strong US friend, and is permitted to massacre anyone they see fit, including the Kurds and Armenians in Turkey, while the US turns a blind eye. Meanwhile, the US wants the Iraqis to not kill their own Kurds. I'm trying to understand the logic here. Do you feel comfortable about this?

Vic,

 

Hell no, I'm not comfortable with much that's going on in Iraq, but since we went in I want to see it through to a successful conclusion, where, hopefully if the American people have the guts to stick it out, we can free an oppressed people.

But I saw the need to go after the Taliban in Afghanistan.

But if you go back 100 years, which is a heck of a long time to an American, you'll find many examples of contradiction in foreign policy. I do know a lot of it is our fault for switching alliances seemingly each decade, but, times change and what worked years ago may not be in our best interests now. for example- just because we fought the British 200-odd years ago, should we fight them now?

George, I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable, I apologise. I just wanted to point out the absurd logic that is going on today. If you leave aside what happened 100 years ago, Armenians are being killed in Turkey, TODAY.

 

Also, one question that people don't seem to address is the issue of democracy. We keep saying that we are going to free Iraq and bring democracy. The thing is that the majority people are Shiites, who are friends of Iran (since Iran is a Shiite country, and not Sunni). If the US puts a "strongman" in power, that person will have to use oppression to subdue the majority population. Another Sadaam in the making.

 

Look back at Kuwait. If you remember, Bush Senior said that the US was going to bring democracy and women's rights to Kuwait. They still don't have democracy. Forget about women's rights. Same for Afghanistan. We don't see women getting any rights there. The US goes and leaves a half baked situation time and again. And they wonder why the world hates them. 99 percent of Americans are very decent people and have extremely high standards of charity and brotherhood. It's the other 1 percent in Washington DC who fool the rest with smoke and mirror logic. Time and again.

Gentlemen:

 

too much flaming going on here. Is this the Leica Photography Forum or Speakers'

Corner?

 

Folks, the reality is - from this working shooter and attorney's perspective - if you're

on someone else's property, the property owner can set whatever conditions they

choose on your use of the property.

 

John Wayne Airport is owned by the Orange County Apt Authority. It is not "public"

land.

 

If TSA, police or other lawful authority tell you to stop photographing, you've got two

choices: comply, or face the consequences. If you're polite and invite the authority's

attention to what your doing, you might get to stay. If the guys having a bad day or

drunk with power, the answer will be no. If the consequences include an arrest,

remember you've got an arrest record that you'll have to get expunged even if you're

found not guilty or the charge is dismissed. Its that simple.

 

Arguing about it or citing the Constitution will get you nowhere but in cuffs and in

the back of a black & white. When I was a cop people used to tell me all the time "I

know the mayor" 'Fine sir, the mayor can get you out of jail. Sign the ticket please."

 

The choice is yours.

 

Let's not flame those who make a decision that they believe is the right choice for

them. While you have the right to say what you want, that doesn't mean you should,

What does the use of offensive terms accomplish? Does it make you more right?

 

Bob Soltis, photojournalist and attorney

"I was never questioned. I guess security ain't so tight here? Or am I just lucky?"

 

 

or maybe they realize there is no real security risk from a photograph.

 

since when has an airport been a target, and how is a photograph of the inside of an airport a security risk?

 

the 9/11 terrorists didn't photograph the airport, the airplane or even the world trade center.

 

george, you got to be kidding if you believe that 9/11 translates to the end of freedom to carry a camera.

"an eye that is clouded with idealism"

 

Idealism and a realistic, well-informed view of what is happening in the world, locally and globally, are not incompatible. You don't have to be a cynic in order to see clearly. Indeed, idealists are often better informed, imo, than people who cynically restrict their humanity to self-interest.

"Do you feel comfortable about this?"

 

Its all so messy isn't it? That's life. Also war makes strange bedfellows. Look at the Russians and the US in WWII (or even in WW1). Or the British and the Germans in WW1 (they had nothing really substantial to fight about). All you are pointing out is that the world is complicated...What's it all about? Someone? Of course Eric Cantona would say it was all about workers failing to be masters of their means of production.

 

"Your kind of thinking is why fascism is alive and well."

 

Mussolini spent a long time in Rome railway stations. As to Hitler and Viennese and Munich railways and airports - just loved them. Airports ARE the breeding ground of fascists dammit!

world is complicated

 

Not really, we like to make it complicated. It suits us to make it seem so. Smoke, mirrors, and shadows.