TLR question.

What is the largest print I should get from a 120 TLR if the photo

is sharp? I have a canon Elan7E and a sales person at my local

camera shop told me if I use 100 ASF I could print 20�x 30�. I�m not

sure if that is true or not. The camera I�m looking at is a seagull

105 TLR for $199.00, is that a good price for this camera? If so

what kind of prints am I looking at as far as size? My reason for

getting this camera is to take some shots of me and my girlfriend to

take up our hall way with large prints of us. Can this camera do

this? I want to get something that will print 3 feet by 3feet. If

this camera can�t do this for me what camera can I get that will?

(On a budget)

Use a tripod and you should should be able to go to 20 x 30, probably not as much as enlarging 35mm to 11 x 14.

Stay away from the Seagull, not because I have tried it...but the are so many excellent older Rolleicord's and Rolleiflex's with excellent optics...that can be had starting at about $250-300. Find one with a coated four element Tessar or Xenar (f3.5) lens and you will be realiably be taking pictures for the next 20 years...

My friend owned one of those seagulls as an intro to medium format and he liked it until it broke and moved onto a yashica 124g and eventually bronica etrsi slr system. For around the price of the 105, I have been hearing that you could probably wait for a used Rolleicord with a tessar or xenar lens that should be very good. These cameras are made pretty well and should outlast the seagull. As far as large prints, I have made 20x24s from hasselblad. TLRs have the advantage of less vibration since the mirror doesn't move making your handheld shots better, remedied with a tripod or monopod and care. TLRs are great being on a budget. For about the same money, I first bought a Yashica LM years ago and it still takes really nice portraits. I also have a Rolleiflex 3.5e3 planar that I really like (albeit more expensive). Check out the Medium format Library http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/index.html There are lots of great articles here that I wish I had read before starting medium format. Another suggestion is to get Medium Format Photography by Leif Ericksenn or Wildi's Medium Format Advantage. The first book is what I got started with and remains a reference and source of inspiration today.

A seagull is an inexpensive camera with an inexpensive lens... 3 feet by 3 feet is going to show any lens shorcomings... I'm not saying a Seagull won't be acceptable, but there is a real question in my mind... How about an older Mamiya C33 off Ebay, or from KEH.com? Should be in that price range and the lens quality will handle a 3 foot print - if you follow my recommendations... Also, a Yashicamat 124G probably has enough lens to do this job...

 

 

Now the film is a real question... If we are talking color, then a color negative film is your only choice for that size print... Konica Impresa 50 Professional <best>, Fujicolor Superia Reala 100, Kodak Portra 160 NC, Fujicolor NPS 160 Professional.. Anything else is a crap shoot for the size print you want...

 

However, if we are talking black and white, now we are "talking", Corey... Your best choice, bar none, is Kodak T-Max 100 (TMX) for this large of a blow up... It should knock your eyes out if the photographer/printer is worth his salt... Next, in my estimation, would be Fuji Acros 100... These should be developed in XTOL 1:2... And, you will be able to count your whiskers if the photogrpaher/printer is up to it...

 

No matter what camera you go with, use F8 <best> for the aperture, put the camera on a tripod, focus on the eyes, and use a cable release to trip the shutter... It is obvious you are new to MF and prints of this size, so get someone who is an experienced photographer to help you, after all you want bragging rights with this size of a print... Sounds like fun, wish I was young again...

 

Cheers ... Denny

There's a fairly complete review of the Seagull here - sounds like maybe a second hand camera might be a better buy.

 

http://www.ephotozine.com/equipment/tests/testdetail.cfm?test_id=157

The general rule, I believe, is 10 times enlarging. For 35mm, the largest print, without any visible degrade, is 11x17. For TLR, I believe you can do 20x20 without any problem. 20x30 (which really is 30x30) I think you are pushing a bit but the quality will still be good enough.

<p>The Seagulls have well-documented quality issues if you search the lists. Many have lenses that are out of alignment, self-destructing shutters, delicate film advance...all of these things will detract from the MF "experience". Yes they are capable of huge enlargements IF you are lucky.

 

<p>You should consider the advice to get something like a late Rolleicord or early Rolleiflex on this budget. The 'Flexes are professional grade, hand-built, German cameras of the 1950's and they will deliver the goods. The 'Cord is a cheaper version with an uncoupled shutter. Its still built better than 95% of anything today. The Zeiss Tessar or Schneider Xenar lenses are great for portraits. They are somewhat soft in the corners unless you stop them down. Quite often you crop the square image and remove the corners anyway when framing portraits so its a non-issue.

<p>The next step up is the Planar and Xenotar-equipped Rolleiflexes. Probably above your budget. Mine was about $450 after servicing.

<p>On any TLR, check the focus at minimum and infinity on film. Its possible that the taking and viewing lenses are out of synch. Its also a symptom of (easily remedied) mirror or focusing screen problems. On a 'Flex, make sure the auto loading works properly, again with film. Check your processed films for spacing problems. Try to get one with a pristine lens. The coatings are soft and often damaged, but often have no real effect on the image quality if you want to bargain. Get a lens hood. Check all of the shutter speeds, especially the slow speeds. The lubricant in the slow speed escapement often gums up after years of disuse. Sometimes it will come back with some use, sometimes a repair is in order. If you don't want to spend $100-250 on an overhaul, then get it from somewhere that offers a warranty.

The Seagull 105 should handle it. In color for a 30x40 use Fujicolor: Superia or Reala 100 Or Kodak: Portra 160 NC, 160VC or 400UC. The 105 lens is best use at f11 or f16 for a photograph that size.

 

 

As Xenar of a Rolleicord or Rolleiflex will also handle it. The Rolleicord with the Xenar might be cheaper. For that size printing avoid a Rolleicord with a Triotar lens. I have a 20x20 print of my daughter on the wall and it would not be to much to have is print 30x40. I use Real and f5.6 for the negative, but any of the films listed would be equal to the job.

Another vote for a used Mamiya TLR. Very sharp, and lenses range from 55mm to 250mm. Big and heavy, though.

 

Don't forget your tripod... ;-)

 

CXC

Forget the Seagull! I've owned 5 of them. A couple were actually pretty good----until the shutters just quit on me. For under $100 you can get an ugly Rolleicord that will be 10x the build quality with much better lens. And for under $200 you can find nicer Rolleicords, Yashcia 124s, Minolta Autocords, or if really lucky, like I was in Beijing last September, find an ugly but still perfectly useable Rolleiflex Planar 2,8E for $180! (not typical but can be found!) Important thing to avoid disappointment and QC issues: forget the Seagull!

If you don't care about grain in the print, then you can enlarge from 35mm to any size at all.

 

If you want good quality, then a larger negative will help, but doesn't guarantee much of anything if you are not skilled and have poor equipment. I suggest you figure out who is going to make the prints, and ask what they suggest.

 

You can rent a very fine camera, tripod, lights, etc. for a few days, and take photos limited only by your skill.

 

If you want to buy a camera and this project is your excuse, then see the other responses.

I would not spend $200 on Seagull. The number of problems reported on the WEB is beyond my comfort zone. Further, for the price you can really good and reliable TLR (I owned Minolta Autocord, FLEXARET and Ricoh Diacord (all 4 element lenses) and cannot say single bad word about them). Mamiya TLR (interchangeable lenses, basic lens 80/2.8, 5 elements in 4 groups) is also within your budget (if you are willing to shop on eBay). The only problem with Mamiya is the temptation to buy other lenses, prisms and accessories for it.

Rollei or Yashicamat 124G would be the best choice on a TLR (speaking from experience). Build quality & particularly lens quality are far superior. Not to mention that it's easy to get spares, accessories (both mainly bay 1)& repairs done on both.

 

Mamiya's nice & extra lenses are easily found but you wouldn't want to lug it around too much - it's more of a studio workhorse.

 

Gavin

My experience with the Seagull was that it is a good introduction to medium format because it makes you buy a better TLR when it dies. Hopefully you can avoid that step and consider one of the TLRs mentioned above. In my case, the versatility and modularity of the Mamiya was irresistible. Don't worry about weight too much... I think it actually helps steady the camera at slow shutter speeds - but for fine work a tripod is always best.

I�ve known two Seagulls, and they both died of shutter disease. I used the Mamiyas for years and can�t say enough good things about them.

 

I know I�ll get flamed for this, but it�s going to be an exceptional image that you can blow up to 30� from a 2� negative, no matter what the camera. My experience is somewhat more conservative. But hey, we�re all different.

You can print any size print from any negative. It is just a matter of what quality you want that print to be. Try a shot with your Elan. Use a middle aperture, f/8 or f/11 or so, use a good tripod, use self-timer or cable release, use a slower film, get it blown up to 20x30 and see what you think.

 

You might keep in mind that there are people that use 8x10 view cameras and only contact-print their negatives. Meaning, they don't feel like they get adequate quality in an 8x10 print from a 4x5 or 120 negative. Meanwhile, your local drugstore will be happy to make a 20x30 poster from a disposable-camera negative.

Shoot TMax 100 or Delta 100, use a tripod and you should be able to get up to 20x30 inches. You could get up to 30" square if your technique is spot on.

This group never ceases to amuse me... The man says he wants to try MF, and asks about a $199 camera and directly states he is on a "budget"... Immediately he is inundated with posts telling him to buy a ROLLEI?!?

 

 

 

Cheers ... Denny

Why not buy a Rollei for $200? I got a very nice Rolleicord Va this year for £57, which last time I looked was comfortably inside 200 bucks. And I recently bought a Rolleiflex 3.5E Xenotar for $217.50 including case, hood and original instruciton manual. Both of these cameras are vastly better than a Seagull, and I could sell either of them without losing a penny, whereas what is a used Seagull worth? And both of them will last a lifetime.

Yeah Dennis, go to eBay and do a search on Rolleicord, then hit the Completed Items link on the left and see about a dozen Rolleicords that sold in the last few weeks for under $200. <p>Yup, this group sure never ceases to amaze me too.

I'd vote for a good Rolleicord with Xenar lenses any day. Another option is a good condition Minolta Autocord (earlier version without metering) with Rokkor/3.5 lens. Both are compact, light, mechanical and with great optics. I made a 40cmx40cm reprint of a 400 ASA print using the Rolleicord Vb stopped down recently ... the image quality still amazes me.

 

wkr, Nazeri

I have both a Seagull and a Mamiya C330 TLR. The quality of the Mamiya lenses clearly outshines the Seagull. However, the Seagull is easy to handhold. It is lighter and easier to operate.

 

I use the Seagull for B&W now. For color prints or slides I use the Mamiya.