notraces Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I'm starting to learn my Nikon Coolscan V. I'm experimenting with converting color to black and white. This evening I dropped in a slide from a pile I have on my desk. All I really did was scan in the image and conver to grayscale -- and then applied unsharp mask, resized, applied unsharp mask again, and adjusted contrast and brightness. With the color image, I basically did the same thing -- but also adjusted saturation. I'm not particularly pleased with the sharpness of the image -- comments are appreciated and any suggestions are welcomed. I'l probably have to do this in two posts. Bob<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notraces Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 Here's the color version.... The image was taken with M6ttl / 35cron and Sensia 400...<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_shriver Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 There's not a lot of color in the color version, and the yellow winds up rather glaring. It winds up harsh, where the B&W one isn't. There's a lot lost in the shadows, at least on a calibrated gamma 2.2 monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notraces Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 I'm using an iMac calibrated down around 1.8... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry_lehrer Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Bob Neither are any good because there is NO detail in the smokers face. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric_scott1 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I am definetly a fan of the colour version here. B&W can sometimes help viewers to focus on the subject of an image, but the colour range here is very unified and mutued, with nothing too glaring or distracting. Instead, I feel that there is a warmth here that is missing in the b&w version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattalofs Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I think the B&W is better except for the level of detail in the smokers face. If I tilt my lcd just right, I can see some detail in the smoker's face in the color version, but it's gone in the B&W. I have no experience with neg scanners, but if it was a flatbed I probably start playing with the scanner's gamma adjustment. You might also try turning up the brightness a bit. It seems like this kind of thing just takes a lot of fiddling with. Once you get a good baseline conversion figured, save it as an action, and adjust individually from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_. Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Bob: The B&W works for me. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingell Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I also prefer the black and white. The composition is intriguing. I think I'd like to see some detail in the face, but maybe not...It's a challenging image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notraces Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 I agree with the comments around no detail in the face.... I actually found another slide I took of the same man, but a little closer. I'll try to work with that tomorrow. I remember taking the photo after about a 10 hour bus ride... I'll try playing with the gamma and brightness a bit, too... Thanks everyone -- I really do appreciate the help! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry_freeman1 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 More likely your Photoshop skills need fine tuning. Convert to B/W using Channel Mixer > Monochrome, then a Curves adjusment and a slight USM...jf<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmarkpainter Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Bob, PLEASE don't tune your Photoshop skills like that :) Sorry Jerry but you managed to take a really cool shot and suck all the life out of it. I don't think that the original B&W version was supposed to be a photo of the smoker's face. It is a photo of the whole scene. jmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutz Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Bob, I think both (b&w as well as color) may work. Gamma calibration is crucial with this picture, though. And I, personally, think "fine tuning" is, too. With all due respect I'm proposing two attempts of my own to balance your pic. Cheers.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutz Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 <div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_west Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 i don't usually mess with other peoples images - so forgive me, but here's a way to gain so detail in that face. select the face area only, mess around with levels, curves and contrast to give the appearance of detail. nothing was added. i just lightened the face and then increased it's contrast. nothing else was changed.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutz Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Hmmm..., Don't know what happened. They both seem to look quite similar. Anyway, here's my b&w attempt.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d._p.1 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Bob, if you would have only waited for the lighter to light up! Ah... if only... yes, 10 hrs bus drive and all that, i can imagine. But still a nice shot. <br><br>cheers, d.p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notraces Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 Lutz -- I really like what you did on both the PC and Mac gamma versions -- please share what you did! DP -- I couldn't agree with you more -- a second more would have illuminated his face... that would've been perfect. I wasn't going so much for the man sitting there as I was the 'mood' of what I was seeing -- a very small cafe in a Havana hotel -- the smoothness of night rolling in.... Thanks again to all.... all great comments.... I'll try to post more tonight -- along with some thoughts I have of Cuba... ---Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_Cooper11664875449 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Seems like everybody is posting a version of it, so... Comments: both the black and white points fall short of the mark and the lit spot on the wall is burnt out - one of the problems of shooting harsh contras situations with colour negs and expected the exposure lattitude to hold. I find that this image has a lot of detail available beut requires a reasonable amount of dodging to achieve good tonality with detail. just my 2 RMB Craig / Beijing<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_s4 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 There are other good approaches to locally adjust contrast or brightness: visit the <a href="http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/contrast_masking.shtml">Contrast Masking</a> page at Luminous Landscape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikep1 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I prefer the originals to any of the "doctored" versions. I'm sure there is far more shadow detail in the slide. I've used coolscans qute a bit and they don't pull shadow detail very well. Shadow detail that is excellent when viewed on the light box or as a projected image on a screen goes missing in the scan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notraces Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 There's a lot of detail in the slide, for sure -- I turn off most of the enhancement 'stuff' in the Nikon Scan software -- I'm going to experiment with it more this evening... I not convinced that shadow detail can't be pulled better than what I've done here... It's the learning curve for sure. I think the other issue may be the way I converted the color image to grayscale. I've been reading about using the Lightness channel in 'The Photoshop CS Book for Digital Photographers' -- it works pretty well -- but what I'm finding is there's several ways to skin the proverbial cat in PS... fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutz Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Well, I basically worked on the harsh contrast and the reddish cast of your jpeg. <p>I first worked on <i>Image>Adjustments>Curves...</i> "nailing" the center of the linear gamma, then gently bending the upper (highlights) part of it downwards and the lower (shadows) part upwards, to make the whole curve slightly s-shaped. <p>Next I <i>Image>Adjustments>Color Balance...</i> took out the color cast by shifting midtones, shadows and highlights gradually towards the cyan side, slightly adding yellow to the midtones. <p>I then performed a <i>Image>Adjustments>Auto Levels</i> command since the pic still looked a bit washed out. I was quite pleased by that result, used <i>Edit>Fade Auto Levels</i> just a bit. <p>Then with the help of <i>Image>Adjustments>Hue/Saturation</i> I pushed the "Master" as well as the "Yellows" up a bit to make the flowers stand out. <p>In the end I attenuated the orange zone bordering on the blown out white wall by selecting it in <i>Image>Adjustments>Replace Color...</i> with medium "Fuzziness" and decreasing its saturation by a good amount. <p>I added a pass of <i>Filter>Sharpen>Unsharp Mask...</i> at 100%, 0.4, 0 but lastly faded that filtering down to about 50% again.<p>Since I had switched my Mac to a gamma of 1.8 before doing the adjustments the result could be saved and uploaded without alteration for Mac viewing. For PC viewing I saved a version through <i>File>Save for Web...</i> which has been pre-set to a gamma of 2.2 through the preferences.<p>I aimed at preserving the backlit, chiaroscuro mood, balancing the white wall and my interest in the features of the man, trying to make the terracotta floor and wooden table look as natural as possible and giving the flowers a discreet accent. <p>Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notraces Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 Lutz, You're a gem! Thanks for taking me through the steps -- it just shows me how much I have to learn in Photoshop -- I read every night I can -- but there's so much -- what I've come to realize is that it's important to know where to find the tools -- and experiment with them - much like I do with all my camera gear -- What you've done for me is highlighted the tools I need to get comfortable with -- and learn how they interact with one another... What I'm hoping to do is come up a with a nice workflow that I can use on each image -- I may or may not have to use every tool -- but at least I'll know how to use them when confronted with the need. Thanks so much -- I really do appreciate your kind help. Bob Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutz Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 You're welcome, Bob. PS is an incredible toolbox. I probably know just half of its contents and I have been practising for years... You best walk the steps described thru your own pic just to get accustomed to these basic routines that will most probably come in handy with every other pic. BTW, for dodging, burning and clone stamping I highly recommend getting a graphic tablet like one of the cheap WACOMs. It makes retouching much more intuitive and ergonomical. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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