Help me, Wisner don't send my camera.

Now Ron tells us that Mr. Lee first ordered a 12x20, then changed his order at the moment that camera was ready, in effect starting the process all over again. And blaming the delay on Ron. Time and again we've seen manufacturers and retailers crucified online, based on unsubstantiated claims, is Ron next? It seems that someone is blowing smoke here, but whom?

Yup, this is started to sound like the typical photo.net habit of piling on. Unsportsmanlike conduct in football but seemingly fair game here. Dunno why photo.net should even try to become an arbiter of consumer affairs unless it's going to be done fairly, equitably and thoroughly.

Regarding the custom musical instrument comparison, yes there are some makers who can supply an instrument in less than a year, but someone of very strong reputation will have a much longer waiting list than that. Luthier Greg Smallman's list exceeds 15 years, last I checked, and the guitars are in the $10-20,000 range. For less known makers 3-5 years is not unusual.

 

The difference is that most will accept a deposit to get on the waiting list rather than payment-in-full, and they usually have a generous policy about returning deposits, since they know that they can easily sell the instrument to another customer.

When all reason fails, blame it on the consumer, of course.

 

This is not a sport. This is a business. Customers like Mr. Lee do not part with serious money (priced a 16x20 lately?) on a product, sight unseen, based on faith alone, just so that they can have a go at Mr. Wisner in forums like these. What any customer wants when he parts with his hard-earned dollars (or clams in my case. Thank the great Poseidon that Dr. Phillips loves baked clams. Make mine bearded ones.) is to get his product on time as promised by the vendor. Is it unreasonable to expect this? Is that too much to ask? Nobody parts with his hard-earned money to get into a sport of slagging the manufacturer online. There is too much money and pain involved.

 

What is glossed over by the apologists is this: Mr. Wisner made Mr. Lee many promises to deliver his camera and broke every single one of them. I accept on face value Mr. Wisner's claim that Mr. Lee changed his order in December 2002 after his payment in April 2002 (nine months). (Is this substantiation?) If so, Mr. Wisner allowed it. Is Mr. Wisner doing Mr. Lee a favor? The cynic in me sez that the 16x20 costs more than the 12x20 thus making Mr. Wisner more money. Okay, bad cynic. It is called giving the customer what he wants.

 

This is the rub: what delivery schedule did Mr. Wisner promise Mr. Lee now when he allowed the change in order to a 16x20? It has been another nine months since December 2002.

 

There is more to this than meets the eye. Let's hear more from Mr. Lee before we decide that Mr. Wisner is being crucified.

 

A someone who straddles both sides of the fence, both as a consumer and a service provider, all I can say is this: as a service provider, I make a promise, I make good on my promise. Do not take advantage of the customer's good faith. I have only one chance to make an indelible bad impression that is bad for business. As a consumer, all I want is to get what I had paid for as promised by the vendor on time.

 

Slagging is not a sport. Stop muddying the waters. Those who feel that Mr. Wisner is right should pony up with their own money and then be put on the carousel that Mr. Lee is riding now. It is not your money and thus not your pain.

 

Put things right, Mr. Wisner. Deliver Mr. Lee's camera and put it all behind you. Stop casting aspersions on Mr. Lee. It will only make things worse from a business perspective.

Ever figured out that English is not Mr. Lee's language of choice? He has a problem writing it, much less speaking it. Is it any wonder he did not return your calls? Can you speak Korean, Mr. Wisner? That will help very much.

Gentlemen,

I have given you the facts as I know them. I still have not heard from Mr. Lee. It doesn't matter. He will get the best possible camera from us, as he deserves, and he will receive it before he returns to Korea. And I was not trying to "shift blame" to Mr. Lee for changing is order. I was just giving the facts. We will deliver his camera as promised, and move on to the next cameras. I do not gloat about having more work than we know what to do with. I am simply trying to point out that we deliver the best camera that we can for the best price possible. This has resulted in our making more field cameras than any other company in the business. This has turned, in some cases, into long waiting lists for certain sizes, especially the large ones. Since about a year and a half ago, the interest in cameras larger than 8x10 has tripled, at least at this company. Naturally, it has taken us some time to adjust to this market demand. It has also resulted in several new designs of much lighter weight. I do the best possible job I can for my customers which is why we have been able to innovate and produce these new designs. I am fallible and I admit it. But with all due respect, I am very busy, and while you guys continue to churn away here, I have cameras to make.

One final note. After speaking to Mr. Lee's sister yet again this morning (still havn't heard from the man himself), she informs me that Mr. Lee attempted to email us (several?) and got no response. On AOL it is very easy to search all such emails, and the last one on record from him is July 23rd. I can only assume that if he send emails recently that they were caught up in the worm this week and last. I know from other customers that many emails were screened or blocked by providers. I can certainly understand why Mr. Lee would be concerned if we didn't answer, allthough it doesn't explain why he didn't pick up the phone knowing I had called his sister numerous times. His English is quite good and I have talked to him before.

 

Ron Wisner

"Stop muddying the waters." -- SpongeBob SquarePants , August 30, 2003; 08:08 A.M. Eastern

 

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about what an anonymous poster hiding behind a cartoon character's moniker says anyway. Internet anonymity generally encourages recklessness and ill-considered statements.

 

Altho' the "Stop muddying the waters" bit was probably the most sensible thing you've said.

Well Mr. Lee did you get your camera??

Again, as a courtesy to the group, please close this post. WHen exactly did you finally receive your camera and was everything satisfactory?

The courier has the shipment, which will arrive late tonight. Mr. Lee has been fully informed.

 

Ron Wisner

Please update this forum on the status of your order, Mr. Lee.

Our UPS SonicAir system has confirmed that your package has been delivered.

 

UPS SonicAir Number: xxxxxx47

 

Package Status:

09/01/2003 Origin Pickup

09/01/2003 Airport Dropoff

09/01/2003 Flight In Transit

09/01/2003 Flight Complete

09/01/2003 Airport Pickup

09/02/2003 Delivered to Door

 

Signed for by: xxx xxxxx

Geez, give Mr Wisner a break will you.

Cartoon characters acting up. Geez. Bit of bad taste in this thread.

Gentlemen, we all (or most of us) work in large format. It is a contemplative, slow, methodical format. We all pride ourselves in delivering (or attempting to) high-quality craftsmanship. And I'm sure that, even though I'm a newcomer to LF, we all don't like being rushed.

 

I would expect more appreciation for quality craftsmanship and the amount of time it takes to achieve it among us. If you don't understand, try to go out and get a great 8x10 shot in 3 minutes and one negative. Including setup time.

 

If you still don't see the difference, just go out and get a Cambo. I have one. It's great. I couldn't afford a Wisner, knew it, and got something that will work until I can afford such a fine camera. If you can't tell why the Wisner takes longer to get than the modular metal monorail, you're better off with the Cambo.

 

Come on people, Ron is a talented craftsman just like all of us are or wish to be. All good work takes time, it's something you can't rush. And if you try to, it's because you can't appreciate it. Think back to all those times someone told you "just sake the damn picture". Well, stop screaming "just ship the damn camera."

Jason almost everything you say is true enough. But you have missed the point of the entire thread so I won't belabour it.

Sorry to late reply.

I received my order last week by virtue of Everyone.

My English is poor, So I can't understand all of this.

But I can feel Everyone's care.

At this time I can't say about satisfaction. Bacause I don't use my 16x20 camera yet. Someday I will say about my 16x20 camera in this forum. In closing Thank you very much all of you.

Call me the exception, or perhaps the silent majority (?), but I have been very pleased with all of my interactions with the Wisner co. When I ordered my 8x10 Technical Field Camera whilst living in Japan, it was promptly delivered. I was new to LF, in a foreign country where I did not speak the language, and was trying to teach myself how to use it - Ron fielded many of my phone calls early in my learning process to help me out; giving advice on everything from lens recommendations to camera movements. I subsequently attended several of Ron's workshops, and found them very informative. They are not for everyone, because Ron is not going to spoonfeed you "the answer" in terms of how to create an image - however, he will challenge your creative process, and he will teach you how to get everything out of the camera - highly recommended.

Pawel,

 

That's great to hear. There are so many posts on problems with the Wisner Company that it's very hard to know how big a problem it really is and how many people have had a bad experience. I imagine it's not near as big as you'd think considering most people don't post with stories of "everything went fine".

 

Good luck and have fun, Ed