Drying negs

Hi everyone,

Tomorrow, I am buying some equipment to develop my own negs. I have

never done this before, and I am quite excited of the thought of

being able to experiment more with black and white. I think that I

have read up on enough to get me started, though, I am concerned

about drying the negs. Are the film squeegee's any good? I'm sure I

have heard someone rubbishing them (i cant remember where from).

Also, I heard (may have been from this site)that shamois leather is

good to use to soak up excess water on the negs, is this true? I

would have the impression the neg would scratch if this was done, has

anyone tried it?

Well, I'm off to take some snaps.

Cheers folks!

Chris

I'd heard about squeegees scratching negatives, so I just make sure I clean mine before every use, and haven't had a problem yet. The name is so cool anyway you just have to use them :)

 

(I'm sure someone will suggest using your fingers or a cloth or something. The important thing is to get rid of excess water in a way that works for you without scratching anything)

 

Using a wetting agent in the final rinse and on the squeegee should also ease the drying, but I've never tried *without* wetting agent, so I don't know from personal experience if it makes any difference.

 

After that, just hang the film to dry for a couple of hours or so. It curls less if the surrounding air is very moist, I use my bathroom and get the best results if I take a hot shower just before developing :D

 

Of course it takes a little longer to dry in moist air, something like three hours for me, but the moisture also reduces dust so there's no reason for rushing it.

Personally, I don't touch my negs once they are washed and have had a dip in a drying aid. I used to use Photo-flo at about three drops per pint of distilled water and had good results. This was my practice for the last thirty years or so. Recently, after reading somone's suggestion of using alcohol and distilled water I gave it a try, and have stuck with it. I don't remember who it was that mentioned it, but it works very well. I use a 10:1 ratio (water to alcohol). Hang it up to dry straight off the reel and come back in a couple of hours. Dry film, no water spots, just right! Dust can be a problem weather you squeegee or not, though. I dry my film in upright PVC tubes. Any kind of tube will do, though (cardboard or what-have-you). The ends of the tube are covered with a cloth, such as cheesecloth. A clip on each end of the film, one for weight at the bottom and one at the top with a small hole drilled through it to hang the film by. Works well and keeps dust to a minimum.

 

Dean

Are you in a hurry? Then bother with squedgee. If not, one last bath of water

with wetting agent will do the trick. In less than 10 minutes your film should be

completely dry.

I use as a squeegee two wet fingers.

 

My main problem used to be dust until I started drying negs inside tubes, as stated above.

I use Photo-Flo, two wet fingers, and a hair dryer when I don't want to wait. If you decide to use a hair dryer put it on the coolest setting. I've never had a problem with it blowing dust onto the film, but if that concerns you try a higher fan setting through a coffee filter attached with a rubber band.

I used a sqeegee once. It took the emulsion off the film! Never again! I don't touch the negs when they are wet and with cotton gloves when dry. If possible, just let them drip dry.

I'll be short. Do NOT use a sqeegee! Unless the thing is absolutely spotless you'll risk scratching your negatives. Use a solution of 1/2 strength PhotoFlo with a a little bit of clear unscented alcohol as a final rinse. Then hang your negatives to dry. They will be spotless and they will dry relatively quickly.

I used a squeegee once. I ended up with about half the roll scratched. Now I do a final rinse with Photo-Flo and hang the film to dry. Nothing touches the negatives. No more scratched negatives and with the Photo-flo the film dries fast.

If you are willing topay for the freight, I will give my squeegee to you free of charge!

 

Used it before, with and without wetting agent. Scratched my negatives real bad. Even after washing the squeegee in distilled water and with water with wetting agent! Never again! Just use the wetting agent and hang dry. A lot safer! And simpler!

 

The alcohol experience is interesting. Will certainly try that. Thanks

Some have good experiences with squeegees, some bad. A lot depends on the squeegee -- Patersons are the best in my experience -- and on how clean you keep them. As for pulling the emulsion off with a squeegee, you'd need to use a very strange processing sequence, or wash for far too long (hours) for that to happen.

 

I oscillate between squeegeeing and not, and have done for 38 years. Actually I started out with a chamois; them did the 'two fingers' trick; then squeegeed; then not; then squeegeed; then...

 

Hang the film diagonally -- I used to pin mine over a doorway -- so that the drips run sideways into the rebate. Ive never found those plastic tubes any good because the film jumps sideways and sticks to them, but maybe I'm just clumsy. Nowadays I use a proper rigid-side drying cabinet, bought used. I had to clean it VERY CAREFULLY when I bought it but there's nothing like them for clean films, dried quickly.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

I would avoid the squeegee, even though I used it at one time in my early photo processing days. I would also avoid chamois leather. I sometimes use a photo-quality sponge that is moistened with the Photo-Flo solution right before using (a dry sponge will damage the negatives). Store the sponge in a dust free place such as a plastic food bag.

 

The other trick is to only use a few drops of Photo-Flo (or equivalent) with the final distilled water rinse. DO NOT use the amount of Photo-Flo recommended by Kodak and discard the solution after each developing session. You can use a medicine dropper to measure out a few drops, which you can purchase from a discount or drug store for about $1-$2.

 

Spring for the stainless steel film clips (with weighed ones on the bottom) and construct a holder for them using a wire coat hanger. The film must be hung to dry in a dust free place. If you use a bathroom, turn on the shower for about 5 minutes to raise the humidity and cause the dust to fall to the floor (about 10-15 minutes before you hang the film to dry).

I NEVER squeegee. With correct use of wetting agent (Paterson's at 2 drops per 100ml) it isn't necessary. After washing (and I suggest the Ilford Method) just immerse the reel and film in water containing wetting agent. I put 50 ml water in a jug and add 14 drops of Paterson wetting agent. Then I mix this thoroughly and top up to 700 ml. The reel and film are then immersed in this with gentle agitation for about a minute. Then hang the film up to dry in a dust-free environment. I used to use a long polythene bag of the type used to cover evening-dresses with a wire frame in the top made from two wire coat-hangers.

WOW, thanks for the advice folks. DO you know you guys are a wealth of great advantage, thank you very much!

So basically, I wont be buying a squeegee or shamois leather either today. haha, im going to have to find a nice dry location to dry my negs, I like the horizontal idea - i will give that a try. i think the key is wetting agent here, as nearly everyone has mentioned it! will invest in some of that! The coffee filter sounded a unique idea too! I will also try the tubes (large ones so the negs dont stick).

Cheers folks, you have made my day! :)

Chris

I definitely wouldn't touch the wet negatives. Shamois leather is great to clean but the stuff can harbor dust and grit.. Also loose fibers if the shamois is cheap or worn, and those fibers will stick to the wet negative.

 

Jet Dry works better than Photo-Flo, for me atleast, as strange as that sounds. Plus you can get it pretty cheaply at the local supermarket.

 

Washing with alcohol works well too. I don't need to wash with alcohol because I have a drying closet with a heater inside.

 

If you want to get rid of excess water on the negatives, try flicking the negatives while still on the reel. You can do this pretty violently and get the vast majority of droplets off, especially if you used a washing aid. Good luck!

No squeegee here either. Final rinse is a few drops of Photo-Flo in distilled water, then hang the film in a plastic garment bag to dry overnight. No streaks, spots, or dust.

Another disagreement with most of the above.

 

I used to hand process a *LOT* of B/W film (all formats) for a commercial lab, and needed to find the technique that yielded the most flawless negs with shortest drying time.

 

Some of the things I learned was that forced heat drying caused more problems in the form of emulsion irregularities than air drying. In this respect B/W emulsions seem different than C-41 or E-6. There were many times we were pushed for time and I loaded wet reels in the C-41 and E-6 dryers to hurry things up, and that always resulted in more problems in the form of dried drips and curling than simple air drying. I have yet to see any professional C-41 or E-6 line that delivered as technically clean film as we did by hand with B/W.

 

I also learned the right technique for using a squeegee that seems many of you haven't. Using a film squeegee cuts drying time down by about 1/4, and the longer the wet time of your film, the worse is will suck up air contaminants and other garbage.

 

The proper way to squeegee film is one side at a time, and not clamp down with those stupid two sides squeegees that will trash your film. I use a film squeegee that's broken in half, and I pull the film taught from the bottom and squeegee both sides twice. Out of the literally tens of thousands of B/W rolls I've hand processed I've only scratched two, and that's because the photographer got sand in the 120 paper wrappers after he dropped them at the beach. I also use this same technique for E-6 when I used to hand process that stuff.

 

Sponges, chamois's and other non-sense don't work. They pick up debris and are basically inefficient. Your fingers aren't bad provided they are clean, but I prefer a rubber blade. It's dramatically cuts drying time and also helps remove residue or debris that is still remaining from your last wetting agent soak. If you want to sit around all night waiting for your film to dry, be my guest.

 

One trick I learned is to dry film in the bathroom, and run the shower with full hot water for about 5-minutes before hanging film. The steam in the bathroom will condense taking dust with it and leaving a very clean room. Turning off your heat/Air conditioning while film is trying also helps keep the air clear of crap that will deposit on your film.

While I managed to avoid damage while squeegeeing with either the rubber things or finger, I've found I get much better results now that I'm using a Senrac dryer.

 

It looks like a giant hair dryer with a big air filter on the intake, and a tube into which you insert your film, still on the reel (only fits stainless) It delivers slightly warm, not hot air.

 

I'd guess it's from the late 60's/early 70's. Mine still has a Harrah's property sticker on it!

 

I shoot mostly B&W these days; when I do shoot color and have a lab develop it, I'm amazed at how much trash there is to clean out after the scan--whadda they do, dry it with toilet paper?? The pro E-6 lab is better than the C-41 1-hour, but neither are nearly as clean as what I can do myself.

To Roger Hicks:

I know the problem you are referring to with film sticking to the inside of the tubes I mentioned in my first post. I didn't elaborate there, but in this case maybe I should. The tubes for my 35mm film are much larger than the width of the film to prevent this problem. Four inch dia PVC allows the film to "do it's thing" while it dries, without touching the sides. The film is centered in the tube with a small clip. My setup also has a small computer fan to draw air through the filters to speed drying. Takes about 1/2 an hour this way. 120 film doesn't stick because the radius of the tube won't allow the emulsion of the film to reach the sides, as the film edge stops it from getting there. (Hope that makes sense. If you could see it, you'd know what I mean). Anyway, it's one way of doing things.

 

Regards,

 

Dean

I recomend highly against touching the film with a squeegee or your fingers. Squeegees scratch like mad, and your fingers usually have chemicals all over them...and you just rinced the film for 15 min or so trying to get RID of all the chemicals. Don't touch the negatives, it's not worth the extra 10 minutes or whatever it is you save in drying time, DO use a wetting agent.

Dear Dean,

 

Ah, a hard-side tube. That makes sense. I was thinking of those see-through PVC 'drying cabinets' that are basically large plastic bags.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

When I first got into photography, I was taught to squeegee my negatives between two wet fingers. The theory was that rinsing off the fingers in PhotoFlo would remove any dust or grit and eliminate the risk of scratching. After scratching a number of negatives, I finally concluded that I was better off just hanging the film to dry - drying took longer without the squeegee action, but at least the negs weren't scratched.

 

Last winter, my wife and I moved to a new home, and over the winter I built a new darkroom. This weekend, I finally completed construction of a film drying cabinet that should speed up the process. The design is based on the film dryer in the darkroom at Peters Valley Craft Center and consists of a tall cabinet with a 100w lamp to provide heat, and a small blower to create air flow through filters and positive internal pressure. In a test run, the internal temperature rose and stabilized at about 20 deg over the ambient temperature in the darkroom. I will use it for the first time to dry film next weekend, but I suspect it will reduce my drying time significantly.

Obviously many techniques will get you to dry scratch free film. My experience is that rubber bladed squeeges are bad bad bad. They can work well when new, if your water is grit free, and all conditions are perfect, but sooner or later grit will get you. If that doesn't happen, the fine edge of the rubber blade will age, harden, and micro-crack. Check it with a magnifier. You'll scratch several rolls of film before you figure out what's going on. Fingers aren't very good at removing water, and you run the risk of contamination. If your skin is as dry as mine, they can also scratch. If you don't use anything but a wetting agent, there may still be dissolved crap in the water. As the water evaporates, this is still left on the film. Two paths seem to lead to success. Either use a wetting agent with distilled water, and/or find a system to wipe the film without scratching it. Most sponges today are junk. They used to sell "photo sponges", which were fine grained yellowish cellulose sponges. That's what I use, but with one caveat- you *must* have filtered (or distilled) water. If you have grit in the system, wiping the film with anything will scratch. IMHO, film that has been wiped down dries fastest and has the fewest defects like dust and deposits. Test- look at the back side of the film, catching the reflection from a bright light. Use a magnifier. You should see a perfect mirror. No lines, scratches, spots, deposits- nothing. This assumes your cameras pressure plate isn't contributing anything bad. Look at the emulsion side. You should see a smooth matte surfaced version of the back (and hopefully an image). If your prints need spotting, go back and look at the film drying process. The problem likely originates there, rather than some inability to blow off the negs just prior to printing.

No one has mentioned this yet, so here's a tip from me: to get excess water off the film, I drop the loaded 35mm reels into a salad spinner. Arrange them evenly so the spinner will be somewhat balanced, and so the reels' axes point to the center of the spinner (imagine the cylinder configuration on a radial engine like on those WWI airplanes). Then spin away as much as you want. I find that this removes just as much water as the squeegee does. I can get 4 reels into the spinner at a time.

 

Larry

I have to admit, I never thought there would be so many different ways to dry negs! it seems like each person has their own method. Though, the thought of me trapping my film to a blender gives me the horrors, and knowing my luck I'll have lettice stuck on my neg! haha/

I thought that I would only have one or two replies to this post as it seemed quite a simple question, im well chuffed with the results!

Cheers guys!

Chris