first B&W (true or c-41) film to try

hello all. i am thinking of dabbling in B&W photography (truly

dabbling, i dont really want to dive into it right now, but i think

it would be nice to try out). which films would be a good start? i

am open to both c-41 and true B&W films. thanks a lot.

i think i would recommend Kodak Tri-X. tried, true and proven-classic. the c-41 black and white films are actually color films and use a different process than true black and white. the results can be similar although you do not get the same wonderful grain that you do with say tri-x.

If you're doing your own developing, Tri-X (ISO 400) is as good

a start as any. If Ilford's HP5 is more readily available to you, use

it; it's very nearly the same thing. Plus-X or FP-4 (both

ISO 125) are fine choices if you don't need the speed of Tri-X/HP-5.

<p>

Sometimes people get passionate about film choice, and I

won't argue that these choices are perfect for everything, but

they're old standards, conventional, well behaved, and

you'll be hard pressed to find a significantly better place to start.

<p>

If you're not doing your own developing, one of the C-41 films

would be a logical choice, but I'll let others make suggestions,

as I have no experience with them.

If you are open to conventional B&W then you will probably make your prints too, so I would definitely encourage that. If the darkroom experience is not to your liking, then try Ilford XP-2.

i will not be doing my own developing. i am aware of the differences between true B&W and c-41, but thanks.

David -

 

If you're really dabbling, go out and get some of Kodak's 400-speed C-41 black and white film, for a number of reasons -- most notably because it'll probably be cheaper for you in the end and because you'll be able to get it processed anywhere alongside your color stuff. XP-2 is lovely for printing at home (I find it easier to print on traditional b&w paper than TCN400 or Kodak B&W C-41), but most finishers print it to sepia -- nice if you like that look, but be aware of it. If you like the look, maybe then get into traditional b&w (or just desaturate your slides/digital images in photoshop).

 

Just my .02

If you expect to process the film yourself (printing takes skill, but processing is relatively easy and quick) I'd suggest either Tri-X or, just as good and generally much cheaper, FP4+ or HP5+ from Ilford.

 

If you don't, go for the chromogenics - the films that use C41 chemistry. But you'll be missing most of the thrill of B&W photography.

David... in this modern age, for the prices labs charge to develop true black and white film it makes a lot of sense to do your own. For the price of about 3 rolls of film you could buy a good tank and reels. Find a totally dark closet for film loading, a clock with a second hand, and $15.00 for chemicals, and you have all the necessary items. Then you could let the lab print any frame that looks interesting to you. <p>

"I love the smell of hypo in the morning..."

im in college right now, so i dont even have a closet. i really would like to learn some day, though. my school (not a photography school) does have a darkroom that i could rent and a class i could take. i just dont know if i will have the time (or motivation) to do it. thanks for all the responses. i appreciate it.

If you don't intend on doing your own film processing then don't screw around with conventional B/W film. There, I'll make it easy for you.

 

Kodak Portra B/W (a typical C-41 B/W film) is likely your best and safest choice.

Well, I'm a grad student in university owned housing, and I've managed to do black &

white film development. It depends a little on how much space you have: I can

recommend <a href="http://www.dantestella.com/technical/guerilla.html">Dante's

article</a> on the subject. The money might seem like a lot, but it pays for itself

fairly quickly.

<p>

If you're not going to develop it yourself, I cannot recommend the traditional black

and white films--if the place you're living is anything like where I am, it's about four

times as expensive to get a roll developed. The traditional emulsions have a lot of

very attractive properties, but they really require that you do your own development.

<p>

This leaves the chromogenics. The only one I've used is T400CN, which is a fantastic

film as far as I'm concerned; just don't expect the 4x6 proof prints to come back with

neutral colors. If you desire larger prints and send the negatives to a competent

house, they come back fine (of course, if you send the negatives to an incompetent,

you end up with a couple of my 11x14s, which have maybe two shades of grey).

<p>

As far as price goes, I order my film through Adorama and the difference between

T400CN and, say, Tri-X is negligible.

Despite what some think, true traditional black and white film is easy to process and relatively easy to learn to print. I would encourage you to consider buying a developing tank and reels and playing around with the chemistry. You don't need a full darkroom to process black and white film. You can use a darkened bathroom or closet or even a changing bag to load the film on the reels and then process the film at the kitchen sink. The only talent needed is consistency. Try Tri-X or HP5+ in D76 first.

 

If you insist on avoiding the processing yourself, don't bother with real black and white film. Unless you're lucky enough to have a lab with someone competent enough to even figure out that it's not color film, you'd be better served with shooting the chromogenic stuff and being disappointed in shooting color pictures without the color.

i do feel confident that i have a competent lab that could do black and white, that is not the problem. again, i would like to learn, perhaps in a couple of years when i have some time. i dont believe that i would have trouble learning, i just do about 50 hours of school work a week, and i dont really have the time to develop film. i will probably just stick to c-41 films for now. thanks.

David, if you do get to hankerin' for "real" b&w but don't want much hassle, get some Tri-X and some Diafine developer.

 

Rate the Tri-X at 1200 (not 400). Don't buy a thermometer or fancy darkroom timer - you won't need 'em. All it takes is 3-5 minutes in Part A, 3-5 minutes in Part B, rinse with water, fix 3-5 minutes, wash, a quick swish in Photo-Flo or similar stuff, dry, done.

 

Couldn't be easier or cheaper. You can reuse the same quarts of Part A and B over and over 'til they get nastier looking than a grad student's coffee pot.

 

If it sounds intriguing, read up on all the Diafine threads in the B&W Film and Processing forum - we've talked this one to death this year, but it's great stuff with Tri-X.

 

The negs scan well and any fool "pro" lab should be able to crank out decent RC prints, however indifferent the lab techs may be - and believe me, they usually are.

 

Try it, impress your friends. ;>

The current crop of C-41 b&w films make experimentation easy. DIY darkrooms located in closets, bathrooms, car trunks, etc., are really more trouble than they're worth, especially if any of this space is shared. Chemistry can be hard to find, tricky to mix and store, and unacceptable to anyone sharing space with you. It may be a character-building exercise, but life holds enough frustration. Try either Kodak Portra BW or B&W+(the nearly identical consumer version); both are optimized for printing on colour paper. Kodak T400CN is another winner and can be printed on colour or b&w papers. Ilford XP2 Super prints nicely on b&w paper but can produce utterly unpredictable results on colour paper(sepia if you're lucky, Welch's purple if you're not). This film does scan wonderfully on Frontier machines.If you're using a digital mini-lab, any colour film can be printed gray-scale(monochrome)--another option to consider.

For "truly dabbling" I'd go with T400CN, a C-41 B&W. You can get it processed anywhere, and prints will be quite nice if done on B&W paper. Prints on color paper have been VERY hit-or-miss for me, with an overall color cast more often than not.

<p>

That said, you can set yourself up to develop traditional B&W with no need for a darkroom or even much money. You'll need: a changing bag, a tank, reels (get Hewes), a bottle opener, scissors, some chem (developer/fix at least), a thermometer, and source of clean water. Tap water will do fine in most places, as long as it is fit to drink. With a liquid conventrate developer like HC-110 or TMAX, you can even mix everything one-shot and forget about stock storage.

<p>

Film wise, I'd go with Tri-X. It is very forgiving and looks great.

<p>

Basic B&W dev is quick and easy once you have some practice, and really adds to the satisfaction that I get from this hobby.

<p>

Joe