fade-resistance of Sharpie pens

Does anyone know how permanent the black ink is in sharpie pens?

(For signing prints made from large format photos-- so it's at least

remotely related to large format photography!).

 

~cj

As far as I know, its about the most permanent marker on the commercial market. I've seen stuff written with a sharpie still pretty legible after being out in the elements for several years. It can rub off from abrasion, but its not going to fade unless its out in the sun for several years.

I did the same pen research a few months ago. The thread is probably in the photo.net archives somewhere, but maybe not. I think someone mentioned that even though the Sharpie itself is long-lived, the chemicals in it aren't good for the surrounding print.

 

For what it's worth, after collecting recommendations from a variety of sources I settled on the Staedtler Pigment Liner. It took some looking, but I found it in the "sketching" section of a local craft store; apparently these pends were originally intended for cartooning. My guess is that all the acid-free "micropigment" pens are pretty much the same, though.

An ex-girlfriend of mine was an art major, and had a professor tell her not to use sharpies for sketches as it's not very light-fast. I'm not sure exactly how light-fast it is compared to a photgraphic print (not sure just what type of print too), but he recomended she use a india ink pen. I'm not sure how it would react to mount board, or photo paper though. Just go into a well stocked art store and ask about drawing pens, and which are more perminant. If you want a suggestion somewere to order from who would be able to tell you about permanence, etc. email me of list.

 

Peter

Chris - either India Ink (my UK Birth certificate is written in it and it hasn't faded after all those years...!) or, I have a pigment ink black marker made in Japan (funnily enough I think I bought it in Seattle somewhere - an artists store I was browsing while Julia bought supplies) - this one is thick marker one end, thin the other, made by zig memory system - I think they make a whole bunch. Says on it pigment ink - acid free - archival quality - lightfast - waterproof - fade proof - non bleeding.

 

tim

I just completed a shopping trip to the local artist's supply store for a pen for the same purpose. Kuretake Company LTD of Japan puts out a gazillion different colors of pigment ink pens that are supposedly acid-free, archival, lightfast, waterproof and non-bleeding. The pen has a 0.5mm tip at one end and a 1.2mm tip at the other. I tested them on the white border of a test photograph and they look just great. There is a brand logo on the pen "ZIG Memory System" and "Conforms to ASTM D-4236" whatever that means.

 

Good luck --

Sharpies are far more light-fast than ordinary felt-tip pens, and they offer the additional feature of adhering to plastic, glass, the surface of prints, skin, etc. But, the colors are not especially intense. The test of intensity is to mark the edge of a negative and then make a print - notations made on the edge of a negative with a Sharpie print as a faint gray.

 

Someone mentioned pigment liners. These are felt-tip pens loaded with pigment ink - essentially India ink which consists of a solid suspended in liquid. Pigment liners are readily available (Office Despot, Staples, etc) in a variety of sizes. The inks will adhere to the same range of materials as Sharpies, and they are far more intense. Notations made on the edge of a negative print as bright white.

 

The ultimate is true India ink - David Vestal advocated using India ink with an old-fashioned dip pen to mark negatives. Well, if you are masochistic, I suppose that works. But when I was in college, I used a Rapidograph technical fountain pen with India ink to take notes - and those notes have not faded a bit in the 40 years since I entered college. Rapidographs can be purchased at better graphic arts supply shops - they cost around $20-25 - and you have to retrain yourself to write with them. One of the quirks of India ink is that because it is a solid in suspension, if you allow it to dry, it will rather permanently clog the pen. So Rapidographs are designed with tubular nibs with a tiny weighted steel wire that runs through the nib that, when you shake the pen, cleans the nib. As a result, you have to hold the pen in an essentially vertical position when you write. Takes practice.

 

Louie

In several years time the black Sharpie pens have bleed on glossy heavy weight stock posters. The edge of the signature discolors to a yellow brown, not very good if they are used on limited edition posters.

Black is very permanent, colors less so, especially red.

For ten years I was Coordinator of Engineering Records for the University of Missouri. There were a lot of verious materials that had been marked with Sharpies and after a few years they all showed bleeding around the edge. These materials were drafting veluum, rag papers, mylars, photographs, and negatives. There are several make of india ink pins available and Light Impressions sells archival markers.

I use a black sharpie to record the date, place, and any significant details on the cork from every bottle of wine my bride and I have opened. I'm glad to hear that a sharpie bleeds over time---all this time I thought it exemplified my penmanship after polishing off a bottle!---------Cheers!

Dear Chris,

I have used sharpie pens for several years to sign color prints. After several years, my display prints have signatures that have faded and turned yellow-brown. These were black ink to begin with.

I have switched to the Zig brand black pen sold at Light Impressions. The verdict is not in yet, but the results after about a year seem promising. I've used india ink and dip pens as an art student and artist and practice is required. Any dip pen increases the risk of ruining a beautiful finished print with a blob of ink.

 

Gary

As a postdoctoral lab rat in molecular biology, I have used many a sharpie in my day. Sharpie's are easily smudged, and can be washed off with ethanol, and other alcohols. VWR markers are the standard for which science people use to label things when they want permanence. I don't know what the ink is in those pens, but it is seriously resistant to most caustic agents. (You practically have to scrape the surface off whatever is written on to get that ink off) Furthermore, these markers have a finer point than sharpies and so are better suited to writting script on paper and are less likely to smear.

Eric

Here is the link if anyone is interested

 

http://www.vwrsp.com/catalog/product/index.cgi?object_id=0011284&resultNum=2

Chris: I sign my prints with these nifty little Sigma Micron pens I get from my local art supply store. They're archival fade resistant, et al. Here's more info on the pens: http://www.gellyroll.com/products/pens/pigmamicron/pigmamicron.html

 

They come in "six distinctive point sizes", so there's one to please everybody. Caveat: they coating on Hahnemuhle Photorag destroys the tip of the finer-pointed pens, so I sign the Photorag with pencil. The Sigma pens are ideal for RC-type papers.

Chris

 

If you live in an area with a Chinese population, go to a shop that sells the calligraphy supplies and get a small brush and the ink: (usually pretty cheap at a real Chinese shop) take a few minutes to learn the use of the small brush and go at it. That stuff lasts for centuries.

 

Cheers