What Camera to get: Nikon F2 or F3?

Through out the summer, I had the chance to toy around with my

digital canon PowerShot S30 and through chance and luck created quite

a few spectacular pictures. =) With my budding intrest in

photography, I thought it was time to get myself a "beginners" SLR

camera.

 

After reading the reviews posted on here and else where I've comed

down to these two options:

 

The Nikon F2 or F3.

 

There doesn't seem to be much differecen between the two (leaning

towards the F3a). However I would apperciate opinions from the more

experinced photographers here. ;)

 

Cheers!

There is significant difference between F2 and F3, and unless you have a fetish for robust/well-built mechanical camera with down-to-earth simplicity (F2) -- I'd think you're better off with the F3. TTL Flash, spot meter, aperture-priority AE are some of the key features you get with F3.

 

I talked about F2's robustness but the F3 is no mean built either.

Hmmm...well I want a camera that is quite robust and to a certain degree be quite rugged.

 

From your post, I take that the the F3 is almost AS rugged as the F2 correct?

 

If so...I'll probably be going for the F3. Sometime it's nice to have extra "automatic" features as a beginner =)

Great choice in "beginners" SLR cameras for once! Either would serve you well. Get yourself a nice manual focus AI or AI-S normal lens to start and you're good to go.

 

I'm an F3HP shooter. Battery dependence is an overrated issue. If you need to do mega long exposures, the T mode is mechanical. I think the HP viewfinder is the best thing ever created for wearers of glasses. The F3 doesn't have a spot meter, rather an 80/20 heavily centre weighted meter. If you ever want to motorize, the MD-4 motor is the best Nikon has ever made. F2's use a clunkier motor that requires you to tell it your shutter speed range for the high speed advance.

 

The weakness on both cameras is the flash system. X-synch is only 1/80 and to get TTL on the F3, you have to deal with the propietary, non-standard flash shoe.

Both cameras are very rugged. Here are the main differences:

 

The F2 is a fully mechanical camera that will work at all speeds without batteries. You only need power for the meter. Without resorting to expensive tricks, it is a manual-exposure-only camera. Certain of the meter heads (the ones with needles instead of LEDs) are somewhat vulnerable to failure because of their age.

 

The F3 is an electronic camera with only two mechanically-timed speeds (T and 1/80 (?) flash synch). It has aperture priority mode. It has an LCD display in the viewfinder that is more prone to failing than the F2's match-needle display.

 

Neither camera is very convenient to use with electronic flash (you can buy a hot shoe adapter or use a PC cable and a flash bracket though).

 

If I had to choose, I would buy an F3 - but I already own two mechanically timed bodies (FM2n and FT3) and I think every photographer who is serious ought to have at least one. If I could only have one of these two, I'd pick the F2.

 

Handle both - you may greatly prefer one based on how it feels.

Pardon my "noobies" to this all...but;

 

I'm slightly confused at the different variants of the F3. Are the variants just add on (could say configuration) or are they a total a new body?

 

Being a glasses user, The F3HP sounds apetitzing!

 

Once again, please pardon my seemingly stupid questions. ^_^;

I seriously considered an F2 before choosing an F3HP. Here are the issues and differences I pondered, more or less in order of importance to me:

 

1. Viewfinder - hard to beat the F3HP, tho' the F2 isn't bad at all. I needed the 100% view, really appreciate the long eye relief finder (even tho' I don't need it because I don't wear glasses while shooting), and don't mind the slightly smaller viewfinder magnification. The view is bright, crisp and easy to focus even at night.

 

2. Metering - again, hard to beat the F3. While I usually prefer manual metering my experience as a journalist taught me to appreciate the speed and convenience of autoexposure. Only much later did I realize how accurately the F3 can meter nighttime exposures in AE mode. With the F2 it's a bit of a challenge just finding a functional, reliable metering prism. And the F3 meters reliably regardless of prism or focus screen and is unaffected by stray light around the finder eyepiece. (The downside is that the F3 meter readout stinks, a tiny, grayish LCD, among the least readable of any camera I've ever seen. And the battery-saving cutout switches in too quickly, which is unnecessary when the MD-4 is attached.)

 

3. Mechanical reliability - can't beat the F2. While it doesn't feel any better built than and F3, to me, it doesn't depend on electronics to function. The winder and shutter release of the F2 do have a slightly better feel.

 

4. Motor drive - no contest, the MD-4 for the F3 is one of the best ever made.

 

In the end what settled it for me was finding a good deal on a fully functional, user grade F3HP with MD-4 and 50/2 Nikkor before finding a similarly good deal on any variation of an F2. But since I appreciate an all-mechanical backup I got an FM2N. I've considered getting an F2AS as well but don't really need another body right now.

Not much I can add to what Lex and others have said, except that IMO the F2 variants can be a bit cumbersome to use compared to the F3, The F2 rewind knob is a tiny, fiddly little thing that big fingers tend to slip off a lot. Many of the buttons for removing finder, mirror-up etc require industrial-strength nails to operate. The motor drive is way bigger than I would care to carry around, (especially 2 bodies!). The old meter-needle variants like my F2 photomic (DP-1 finder) is a bit 'coarse' in reading accuracy. Much better are the LED meter models such as F2AS (DP-12 finder). And then there is the indexing ring shuffle with the pre-ai models, yet one more way to screw up. An F2 is a bit like a clunky old truck...which I also depend on:-)

 

The F3 models are much more ergonomically-friendly, with a perfect but heavy MD4, w/ a power rewind...just enough automation. Either camera will be around long after me!

I have no disputes with any opinions expressed here. For most of the reasons stated by others, the F2AS is my favorite non-motorized manual focus camera, and the F3 is my favorite motorized one.

 

The F3 and F3HP use exactly the same body, they differ only by interchangable finder. I prefer the plain F3, but not by much (and it's usually a tad cheaper than the HP).

 

More expensive variants, in more or less ascending price order: An F3T is a different body in that it has a titanium skin. An F3P is a 'Press' model and has some features added and deleted. There's also a version of the F3P that was only marketed in Japan (I've forgotten what it's called). The F3H is an ultra-high speed (frame rate of 11 fps or so) body and motor drive combo.

 

Have fun!

Everyone has pretty muched summed up the differences in features between the two

bodies.

 

There are die hard loyalists to both the F2 and F3hp. The two are fairly comprable in

price depending on which versions you look at.

 

My self, I shoot mainly sports, so I use an F5. For the times I do not need a high fps

rate, I pick up my F2 and head out the door.

 

The F2 is a terrific choice, but it is heftier than the F3. I use a handheld held for most

exposures, therefore I do not have issues with the accuracy of the DP-1.

 

If you have a decent budget I would purchase both cameras for a trial period of a

month or so. Alternate shooting for a month between an F2 and F3, and see which

fits your needs best, and which body you instictively grab out of the bag.

 

F2's and F3's are going for great prices right now on Eb*y. I recently picked up a

second F2 in mint condition for $125 on a buy it now there. If you are patient, the

deals will come.

<i>I thought it was time to get myself a <b>"beginners"</b> SLR camera. </i><p><p>

There are obviously proponents for both, but my question to everyone is... would you consider the F2 or F3 a <b>"beginner's"</b> camera??<p><p>

Wouldn't a beginner's camera be more along the lines of an FM-10, N60, etc...???

It really is quite simple, go to a camerastore, hold both and let your best judgement decide. Personally i think both are great. I do have a preference for the F2 because i used it for years and im infected with the mechanical perfection fetish, but the F3 is smoother in operation and is lighter. Only 'real' benefit of the F2 i can think of is that the older and cheaper F2's with DP1 or DP2 take the non-ai lenses which are reallyreally cheap.

 

Greetings,

<cite>my question to everyone is... would you consider the F2 or F3 a "beginner's" camera??</cite>

<p>

I'd say either is an excellent beginner's camera, and anyone

who begins on one is either quite smart or quite lucky. The camera

won't get in your way or artificially handicap you, the

viewfinders and screens are excellent, the build quality

is superb, and you'll <em>never</em> have that common beginner's

thought of "if only I had a better camera, my pictures would

come out better". If your photos come out below your

expectations, you know exactly whom to blame, and

furthermore, it's almost always pretty obvious what you did

wrong. (You never think -- did I select the wrong focus point?

Was it in 3-d matrix mode, or just 2-d? Why didn't

the flash pop up?, etc.)

<p>

A beginner will never outgrow an F2 or F3; but if he tires of

it, he can always sell it for near its purchase price. It's

not the only good beginner's camera, and it's not the beginner's

camera for everyone -- some prefer starting on a fully automatic

camera. But I wish I could have used one as my first camera.

<p>

I don't have much to add to the points already explained -- if

you wear glasses, or if you want to use a motor drive, get the

F3HP. If you don't wear glasses and can do without the motor

drive, any of the F2 models are beautiful and functional works

of art.

Yes, I would consider either the F2 or F3 a fine camera to

begin with. I think you will learn the most using a camera in

full manual mode.<br>

<br>

No, I would not consider the N60 or anything less than an N80/F80

as a beginners camera. They are too limited. The inability to set

a film speed is a glaring fault (forgive if the N60 is one of the

low-end N cameras that has this feature). These cameras are cheap

and designed mostly as cash cows for those with trivial interest

in photography. They are basically snap shot cameras.<br>

<br>

The FM-10 can be a beginners camera but its much better to

start with a well built camera. There are too many well built

used cameras for most to consider the FM-10.<br>

<br>

Even the N80/F80 isnt a good beginners camera in my opinion.

Most find the program mode too tempting. When the president of a

camera club cant set her lens aperture half way between f/5.6

and f/8.0 and this is typical of many in the club, both men and

women enough said.<br>

<br>

<em>"I'd say either is an excellent beginner's camera, and

anyone who begins on one is either quite smart or quite lucky."

--Richard Cochran<br>

</em><br>

I agree completely with the entire paragraph that starts with

this sentience.<br>

<br>

I prefer the feel and handling of the F2 but if macro with flash

and IF lenses is in your future I would go for the F3. The 6x

high magnification finder available for all true F series cameras

is most useful on the F3 because all metering is in the body.<br>

<br>

Many recommend full manual for learning ambient light exposure

but few will recommend full manual flash or even auto-thyristor

flash. The F3 has TTL flash and the F2 does not. The availability

of aperture preferred exposure (which I would ignore at first)

and TTL flash make the F3 a very good choice for any photographer

of any experience level.

Both are great cameras and very well built.

 

F3 advantages, as mentioned, eye relief, electronic control, ttl flash, auto mode.

 

F3 Dis-advantages, not easily or cheaply repaired because of all the

electronics. May be prone to electronic failure in highly humid or salt air environments. Keep the battery out of the camera in these environments when storing it, salt air or high humidity accelerates corrosion.

 

F2 advantages, all mechanical and does not need a battery to function. You almost have to run one over with a truck to break it and the modular method of assembly makes it quite easy to service. I can have the mirror box out of an F2 in under 1/2 hour, something not easily done with the F3 because of all the wiring and circuits.

 

F2 Dis-advantages, all of the meters with the exception of the DP-3

and DP-12 are prone to dirty resistor rings and the attendant meter problems. Auto exposure requires a DP-2, DP-3, or DP-12 meter with the addition of a Servo Motor for aperture control. MD-2 and MD-3 Motors have Nylon gears which are prone to failure. Parts are not available (unless used parts from a parts donor body).

First off, thank you all for your swift and informative response. I really apperciate all this information you have presented to me...the more the better!

 

Anyhow, between the F2 and F3, I've finally decided to get the F3. However as for which version to get, I'm still a little stuck. Price is a big factor for us middle-class folks, thus the difference between the F3 and F3HP are quite big. I guess I can really say which one I want until I get my hands on one...

 

"Wouldn't a beginner's camera be more along the lines of an FM-10, N60, etc...???" -R J

 

At first I thought of this, however my experince with my other hobbies taught me a really good lesson: What you pay is what you get. It's better to start off with a "higher-end" camera to learn the ropes IMHO. However you will have to learn things the hard way...but as I've found, this is the best way to learn for me.

 

Once again, thanks for all the responses! Highly apperciate it.

 

Cheers!

<i>

Price is a big factor for us middle-class folks, thus the difference between the F3 and F3HP are quite big.</i>

<p>

In a big enough 'market', the difference in price between an F3 and F3HP is almost 'in the noise'. I do a lot of buying at www.keh.com, mostly in 'BGN' grade. A KEH BGN F3HP is $299. They don't have any BGN F3 bodies just now, but if they did, I would estimate the price to be $260-275. I run one each of the F3 and F3HP. As I said before, I prefer the plain F3, but not by much. It would be simple enough to pop another finder on my HP, but the finders by themselves sell for at least $50 and I haven't thought it worth it (to me) to do so.

<p>

If you go shopping at KEH, be sure to look at the 'camera outfits' page as well. They often bundle / hide cameras and lenses there. They don't seem to discount any for these bundles, but there's a little more inventory to pore through. For instance, they have an F3HP bundled with a 35/2 AIS lens for $398 (BGN). That's a solid workhorse lens harnessed to a solid workhorse camera for a decent price. Add a 105/2.5 AI for $109 (BGN) and you'd have the backbone of an excellent system. Your friends won't understand why you spent $500+ on a camera that "doesn't zoom", but as you learn more about lens quality and design tradeoffs, you'll come to appreciate the remarkable quality of the images, particularly compared to the price of the glass.

<p>

Folks who know me on this and other forums have come to know that I'm a (lens) speed freak, but the faster 35/1.4 and 105/1.8 lenses are 2-3 times that much money, and the lenses I highlighted for you above are as good for image quality but just not as fast. They're still a ton faster than the 'cheap zooms' and even a smidge faster than the big buck 'pro zooms' sold today.

What's the application? In general, the F3 is a better choice, as it has far more automatic features, meters with all of it's interchangeable finders, and is much lighter, with much more reliable motor drive. But, that being said, if I was using the camera in very hostile conditions, like a tropical rainforest or Himalayan mountain climb, which might kill the F3's electronics and or batteries, I'd go with an F2.

F3, especially if you'll be adding a motor . . . I have shot a lot with each.

Fniallly decided to get the F3HP!

 

http://www.keh.com/shop/modcart.cfm?crid=5637660&skid=NK0299905970105&sid=newused&bid=NK&cid=02

 

Anyone else recommend a good place to buy 2nd hand F3HP that comes with a user manual?

I started out with an F and jumped right to an F3hp. The bigest difference I see between the F2 and the F3 is that when one breaks down you can get factory fresh parts for the F3 from Nikon. I have used my F3 in very harsh conditions and never had any issues. Including shooting Rodeos for 8 hours inside the ring...You want to talk about dust and other things in every part of the camera and it never missed a shot

I just received my camera about 5 days ago and has been quite happy with the condition it was in (seemed like it was brand new although I got an extreamly good 2nd hand price for it!). I loved the way the camer contoured within my hands, and also the distribution of the weight. When I'm holding the camera, it feels like 2nd nature to me!

 

Anyhow, the only real complaint I have with this camera is how hard it is to read the LCD display! I have to squint with much scrunity to able to read the display, and this during daylight! At night it gets a lot worse. The wimpy viewfinder light is too weak to be of any "good" use, and is hard to acutate.

 

The camera came with an MF-14 data back, which basiclly allows one to imprint date, time or frame no. on the picture. As I was able to borrow a friend's Nikkor 52mm/2.8 and his Tameron 49-52mm/2.5 I had the chance to shoot a couple rolls. Me being new to photography and all (espically film), didn't quite notice the metering display and suffice to say, relied entire on my own inexperinced judgement on aperture and shutter speed to determine proper exposure. Suffice to say, some of the picture were over exposed or under exposed. However suprisingly, most of the pictures came out quite decent! Nevertheless, I've learned the importance of the metering device (why do I always have to learn it the hard way?).

 

Oh and btw...the prints from the Mf-14 is quite weak quite hard to see at times. Is this common or did I get a defect?

<p>Hopefully your F3 is still working fine and you paid close attention to what Lex Jenkins, Todd Peach & David Hartman said. They know their stuff. I have both cameras. The F3/T with a DE-2 finder and the F2/T with a DE-1 finder. Love them both and as someone mentioned, "they will probably outlive me".</p>